8 ½ months NWs - How to put back to sleep without feeding?

[Dairy Queen]

Hi there,

LO is 8 ½  months old.  He just got over an ear infection where I was breastfeeding during the night when he would wake (to avoid dehydration caused by the antibiotics).

Now, he’s fine physically, but waking 2 times, around midnight and another around 4am for feeds.  I’ve been feeding so far but now I want to ideally stop… However, I am not sure where to start.

EASY routine:
6:30 wake and breastfeed
8:00 breakfast
9:45 nap 1, usually wakes after 90 minutes, around 11:15, breasted
12:30 lunch
3:00 nap 2, until 4:30, breastfeed.  Sometimes I BF at 3pm… before he sleeps.
6:00 supper, followed by bath
7:30 breastfeed and sleep

2 NWs at midnight and 4am.

He actually takes a full feed at 4am (and drinks less at 6:30am… I can tell by the number of minutes and how full my breasts feel).  Probably less at midnight.

DH can sometimes settle him at midnight.  If I go in, he just starts pulling on my hair and crying and trying to suck my cheeks in the dark.  None of us have managed to settle him at 4am (I tried holding him in my arms and rocking him for an hour the night before… no luck… he would just cry).  He's never been a great sleeper, but it was mostly erratic waking.

Where do I start?  I feel like at this age, their tummies should be full enough to keep them going through the night…?


Thanks!
Sherry 









 
     

[anna*]

PUPD?

[Dairy Queen]

For both feeds?  And every time he wakes? As of tonight?  Or do I start with eliminating one feed at a time?

[anna*]

It's up to you. You can go cold turkey or settle without nursing at the first waking, and then nurse at the second.

[matisse22]

The first thing i'd do is push the bedtime earlier by 15 minutes.  I always mess with the schedule to mess with the night wakings ;-)

Then I'd work on increasing my milk during the day, and add some solids to dinner.  Then see what happens.  I wouldn't pick baby up when she wakes, just use your cue words and either stand by the crib if necessary or go back to bed. If baby screams bloody murder, then pick up/put down, or let daddy go in.

I'd also work on nursing less at midnight for a few nights before just stopping.

[Dairy Queen]

Hi there

How would I increase the milk, if I am breastfeeding?

Also, he skipped nap 2 yesterday altogether after a 2hr morning nap.  We had 5 NWs.  He managed to go back to sleep on his own for 2 of them.  I did PUPD (actually just PD) for 2 NWs and at 4:30am, I ended up feeding him since he just wouldn't calm down, even in my arms.

This is the second time he refuses his second nap after a 2hr morning nap, which makes for 7 hours of A time!!!

I tried putting him in the car, the stroller, breastfeeding him but nothing worked.  Should I shorten the am nap to get 2 naps?  When do babies typically move to just 1 nap? Isn't 9 mo too early?

Thx
Sherry

[Layla]

Hi Sherry,

I think he's too young to be on 1 nap just yet but he is showing signs of it - where too long morning nap can lead to nap refusal in the pm, which means a very long A time before bedtime and all those nightwakings due to overtiredness. So having said all that, if he's refusing the pm nap while you're trying to work out your ideal nap schedule, you really need to be putting him to bed earlier than usual bedtime - I would be tempted to put mine down (and have done) as early as 5-5.30pm!

So my thoughts would be to shorten the morning nap to 1.5hrs and offer pm nap around 3.5-4hrs later but it will probably only be a catnap. Or if that doesn't work, then consider shortening the morning nap to an hour and hopefully that will bring on the pm nap. I've attached a link for you to look at to consider your options.
From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)
from 2 to 1 nap - how, when and the bumps
10/ 11mo sleep gone wonky? Read this first! (2-1 switch)

With regards to night feeds, I would probably work on 1 at a time - the midnight one first and then you could work on the 4am feed. If he settles better with DH, then send him in or you could try the Gentle Removal Plan Gentle Removal Plan

Let me know what you think

[Dairy Queen]

Hi there

Thanks for the suggestions. 

Because DS woke at 5:30am yesterday, he had a 2hr nap in the am (9:30-11:30), and a 1.5hr nap in the pm (3:00-4:30).  I put peanut butter in his apple puree for 'extra calories' before his last BF and put him to sleep at 8pm.  He woke up 40 minutes later.  I had to do PUPD for 50 minutes; it was exhausting but I resisted picking him up, just reassuring him with my voice and putting my hand on his back.  If he did get up and sit, then I put him back down.  He slept at 9:30pm and through the midnight feed.  Hurray!

He then woke at 4:00am (took 20 minutes of PD to put him back), 5:30am (took 20 minutes of PD and I did not feed him at all).  I actually ended up staying in him room and sleeping on the floor after that.  I wanted to see whether it was some sort of noise or something that was waking him (no, it wasn't... too bad!  A mystery noise would have been easier to 'solve')
 
And then finally at 6:30am, he woke up for good and I BF him.

I put him to sleep this morning at 10:15am for his first nap.  It took 10 minutes of my patting him on the back and saying 'shhhh... time to sleep' and he was out.

So I guess it's a step in the right direction, although the 50 minutes of crying last night were difficult.  DH kept insisting that we should just rock him to sleep or give him a pacifier (which I removed at 4mo)!

Questions:

Should I just resist feeding him altogether tonight as well?  Just doing PUPD every time he wakes?
Has anyone had luck with W2S?
Any ideas why he would wake 40 minutes after I put him to bed?  Is that a sign of OT or UT (and how do you tell?)

[Layla]

He probably had too much daytime sleep, so I would say under tired ...at 9months, he probably only needs 1 good nap; doesn't need to have 2 long naps. At this age, dd1 and 2 were on a shorter morning nap (45mins-1hr) and a longer afternoon nap (1.5-2hrs) with approx 11-12hrs at night. Try not to get into a pattern of letting him make up during the day what he should be sleeping at night, if you know what I mean.

Also, is this the 1st time you've added peanut butter to him meal? Maybe it was too much and he was waking up from discomfort?

[Dairy Queen]

Hi there

UT?  Interesting.  Here is how yesterday went:
Wake: 6:30am
Nap 1: 10:15 - 11:45 (I woke him up after 90min to ensure we'd have a 2nd nap)
Nap 2: 3:00 - 4:30 (he woke up)
Bedtime: 7:45pm
I added a little less peanut butter to his fruit after dinner (no, it wasn't the first time he had PB) and BF him a little longer than usual before bed since he was more 'awake' than usual given the good pm nap.

Well, we had 3 NWs, but he settled himself all 3 times!!! It took him less than 5 minutes each time.  As I would make my way to his bedroom, he would actually stop crying before I even opened the door.  I could hear him moving his blanket, complaining and moving around in his crib. But I never actually went inside.  So, it was a great night considering the previous week we had!

This morning, he woke at 6:30am again, but I put him down or nap 1 earlier than usual.
Nap 1: 9:30am - 10:40am (slightly shorter than previously, but he woke up on his own)
Nap 2: 3:00pm - 4:30pm I think he was OT at 3pm... it took me quite some time to get him to calm down
Bedtime: 8pm

I'll see how tonight goes.

What happens if the am nap is normally the longer one?  Should I try to switch it around?  i.e. shorten the am to get a longer pm nap?

Thanks!

Sherry