When to transition from 4 naps to 3?

[MarciaMSPT]

Hi Buttonbobs...

I figured longer than a short few seconds was key but it just seemed to upset my LO so terribly. 

Should I start putting him down more awake before I completely drop the swaddle all together so he gets used to being put down more aware or just start both of those (dropping or weaning swaddle and low bounce, more pat) at the same time?

Thanks.

[Buttonbobs]

It is up to you really, I'd probably go cold turkey on all of them, but that's me. You might find that is overall more effective, but it might be a little harder in the short run.

[Layla]

I've tried sh/pat multiple times but it only seems to make my LO scream all the more.  He's a back sleeper so unable to pat on the back.  In a crib so unable to my mouth down to his ear.

J is also a back sleeper and hated being on her side. I used to shush (not in the ear)... just loud shhhhh and rub or rhythmically pat her thigh or gently rub her tummy or she loved it when I played with her hair - so I used to gently rub her forehead. Shh/pat can be adapted to what works for your LO. And I totally agreed with BB - you will have to give it more than 30secs to see results.

I am also all or nothing kinda person and if it were me, I would ditch all props. Actually I was the queen of AP with dd2 (having a 13mo at the time, sleep training wasn't on my mind) and by 4 months, when I had the energy to sleep train and I realised she was very sleep deprived, I dedicated 2 weeks of staying home and shh/patted for almost all naps (with the exception of the last nap, which is always a bit tricky as its the end of the day and they get OT and OS and find it much harder to fall asleep). I stopped using the paci/soother, I stopped breastfeeding her to sleep, rocking her to sleep and it really only took 2 weeks. Having said that, we were still battling 45min naps but I didn't care as much because my goal was to get her to fall asleep on her own. Her morning nap was also always her best!

Whatever you choose, if you decide to wean off the prop of bouncing and use a structured wind-down routine and a bit of shh-pat, there will be some crying. It is upsetting but remember that as long as you are with him, he is soothed by you being there and the crying will not break his trust in you. He will not be afraid but really his cry is just him saying ' I want to sleep mummy but I can't'. As he gets more used to shh-pat, the length of time he cries for will reduce.

Yes to all this - you need to establish a structured routine so that he knows what is coming up (again it takes time for him to learn that). If you have white noise machine, that is an excellent tool to have and its one prop you can use for a very long time and it will also help drown the noises in the house, which could easily awake him when he's in light sleep.

 

[MarciaMSPT]

Hi Layla...

So, I'm not feeling I can just ditch all the props - I'm pulling out of postpartum depression, having lost a lot of wt that I couldn't afford to loose, etc... I'm a bit fragile and feel I need to move on one thing at a time.  If you want to come over for two weeks, we can ditch them all then   If you REALLY think that ditching all the sleep props is the way to go, I'll consider it. 

The props in my mind are, bouncing and swaddling?  Have you detected others?

I feel I have a routine.  As we get closer to sleep time, I remove toys and stimulus ...he is in his bouncy seat (turned off) at this point.  Then I change his nappie and he lays on the changing table in the pack and play looking at toys hanging on the sides.  Then, I swaddle him (one arm out) and sit with him on a ball and bounce and sing to him while I am holding him vertical.  After about 3-4 minutes I turn him horizontal in my arms and continue singing and slow my bounce down and begin patting his bottom (just started to replace the bounce with the pat today).  Then as his eyes swirl around, I get up and go into his room and sit on a ball in there and continue to pat his bottom.  I then pat his chest (since that is all I can get to in the crib) before putting him down and continue to pat his chest.

I"m working on putting him down drowsy instead of asleep... and continuing the pat - he wasn't happy today with it but it did work fairly well.  I'm not sure what to do when he wakes about 30-45 minutes in... should I wait 5-6 minutes of crying to see if he can resettle before I go in and sh/pat for awhile?  I ended up picking him up today but little bounce and more pat - so despite picking him up, I felt I succeeded in at least replacing most of the bounce with the pat.

Any thoughts?  If there are more things I should for a routine, I would.  I do read to him but not for wind down - he grabs the pages and they usually get him revved up again  

Thank you for your help.

[Layla]

I am sorry , you did mention earlier you were struggling and perhaps all or nothing approach wouldn't be good. What you described (replacing bouncing with patting) sounds perfect and as you said, slowly and slowly you'll be able to put him down drowsy but awake and he won't rely on being bounced .

With regards to 45min naps - that is up to you. Personally I used to wait and see if mine would put herself to sleep. I did try and stay with her and HTTJ but it didn't work as she used to get more wired up seeing me there . Leaving her sometimes worked and other times didn't. If she was getting wired up and crying, I used to try and shh/pat and sometimes that worked and other times it didn't.

But it sounds like you're doing a great job ! Oh and with regards to books - dd3 does the same! She gets really revved up when I try and read to her. I have material books (you know the ones that are filled with crinkle material) and she gets all excited when I get them out. 

[Buttonbobs]

How're you getting on?

[MarciaMSPT]

Hi ButtonBobs...

We are doing much better.  I'M doing much better.  I'M gaining weight now, eating better, sleeping, less anxiety etc...

Waylon is settling into 2 longer naps 1.5-2 hour morning and early afternoon and then a 45 min catnap in the afternoon.  We still struggle to make things work to get feeding, bath and bedtime in so that he is not so OT that he then has trouble after BT for the next few hours.

Our "problem" now is that he is now waking up for DF... not that he wakes and cries, just wakes up to drink instead of just sucking.  He's downing about 4-4.5 oz during DF at 9-9:30ish pm.  He's approaching 28-30 oz a day.  He's 18 weeks this Friday - possible growth spurt. He's NOT a small baby by any stretch.  24 inches and 15.1 pounds as of yesterday MD visit. 

We are not sure what to do with the DF - he sleeps through the entire night - I've posted this question elsewhere in the appropriate category as well but if you had any thoughts... perhaps we should top him off before putting him down for BT.

His last BM feed from bottle is between 5 and 6.  BT is anywhere from 6:45 to 7:30 depending on the length of the last catnap... things are just a bit hazy in the late afternoon and trying to figure it all out schedule wise. 

Thanks!
Marcia

[Buttonbobs]

I'M doing much better.  I'M gaining weight now, eating better, sleeping, less anxiety

I am so pleased to hear this. Everything feels better after a bit of sleep and some food. Keep looking after yourself mamma and don't be afraid to ask for help if you feel less positive at any point. This is a hard, hard job and you are doing so well. ((Hugs))

As there is currently

He's approaching 28-30 oz a day.  He's 18 weeks this Friday - possible growth spurt. He's NOT a small baby by any stretch.  24 inches and 15.1 pounds as of yesterday MD visit. 

I did see the DF question and I think I agree with the answers you had there, don't drop it yet - we kept ours going until DD was properly onto solid foods. As we did BLW this wasn't until she was about 10/11 months old. She was a larger baby and always drank near the top of the recommended milk intake amounts. As long as your DS is tracking a weight curve and not gaining excessive weight I really would try not to worry about how much he is taking.

We are not sure what to do with the DF - he sleeps through the entire night - I've posted this question elsewhere in the appropriate category as well but if you had any thoughts... perhaps we should top him off before putting him down for BT.

This might be a good idea - a bit of a cluster feed while he is going through a growth spurt. Things may settle down after that and also as you stretch out his A times, the E times should get further apart too until he drops a bottle and this may make things easier too.

You say you're doing the DF between 9 and 9.30pm. It may be that this is slightly too early into his night and therefore he is disturbed by it more than if it were between 10.30 and 11pm, which I think is the recommended:

Cluster & Dreamfeeding FAQ's - Starting, how to do it, stopping & problems

What do you think?

[MarciaMSPT]

We can try between 10:30 and 11:00 but we normally are crashed by 8:30 or 9:00 but I could set my alarm.  My hubby usually does the 9:00 feed so then I get up for the morning feed and the day with my DS... I can try 11 and see what happens.  So, 9 or9:30 is just way to early eh?  He used to be sound asleep during it but now wakes up...  I'll move it if I need to...   Thoughts?