Can LO's "grow" into A times???

[My little Liam]

My LO started daycare this week and there is no way he can nap before 1330.
I am trying to shift our day later to suit the nap as much as possible, but his morning A will still end up being longer than is ideal. He likes around 5.5hrs and it will probably be 6hr instead.
I am trying to get to
WU 0730
Nap 1330-1530/1600
BT 1930/2000

At the moment he is a bit OT, we had a bad ear infection together with vacation while teething canines and now the start to daycare which has been a bit rough on him and has caused a few days of long NW's. It has been alot the last few weeks...
Anyways, most nights are 10.5hrs with a good nap of 2+hrs and 11-11hr15 if the nap is shorter so i know he is OT.
If i stick to these new set times like glue will it just eventually work?? If his ideal A time is 6hrs at 20mo, for example, and i stick with the set times until then will his nights just eventually lengthen when it is time? Or will the OT just get so bad until then that it wont work??  If that could work i am willing to hold out for the next few months and deal with the OT....
Does anyone have any experiance with dealing with late nap times out of your control?

PS
Just want to add that he doesnt really tack on anymore so doing an earlier BT would only make his morning even longer which i think would cause a worse nap and more OT? Or am i wrong???

[becj86]

I find that astounding! I've always had to argue for L to nap later than 11:30

Is there truly no way? I have often found the easiest way to get L to nap later than 'normal' was to get him put down for nap last. Can you ask that he gets PD for nap first of the kids? They will surely PD for a nap if he's falling asleep in his lunch?

How sensitive is he to OT? Are his naps too short? How many days is he in daycare?

[My little Liam]

In europe, naps at this time are the norm... Everyone starts their day later and go to bed later, especially children/babies.

His nap will actually be at home, sorry if i wasnt clear. He will be doing half days at daycare, mon-fri. Dropoff is between  830-900 and pickup between 1245-1300. By the time we get home and in bed it will be 1330. If he falls asleep in the car and i transfer him to his cot he will wake at 1hr30 the latest...

Is he sensitive to OT? What do you mean? Sadly he has been OT a lot throughout his life... We live here alone so we travel alot to visit family and our routine becomes a mess everytime... I would say we have been in the OT zone for a few months now. Generally he is in a good mood but i can see he is tired and his spirited side comes out  when he is OT. Normally he is pretty textbook, except for sleep, i guess...

He is pretty good with naps. If he is put down later than his ideal A it is a crapshoot, though. If he transitions to the next sleep cycle around the 1hr10 mark at mosts he will usually do another cycle or two and we get long naps of up to 2hr40. But if he transitions later it is as if he isnt tired enough to do another cycle and will wake crying. Resettling usually works if nap is less than 1hr10 otherwise no go...

[becj86]

IIWM, I'd just pick him up 30min earlier for the first 2-3 months til he can cope with the later nap or you can get the WU to shift later. Can you maybe do a long day (with an APOP'd CN and a long nap) one day when you've got him at home and shift his BT later - to 8:30 or so and see if that shifts his WU?

[My little Liam]

Ok i think i will pick him up early the next few months.

Regarding getting WU later, i can do a cn but sadly no apop here works!
A few weeks ago we were on holiday and he fell asleep in the car for 20 min and refused another nap for the rest of the day so i think i need the cn to be in the pm. I think i could probably get him to do it 3-4hr after waking from his nap as he likes a shorter pm A.
Last few days wu has been really early around 530-6 since naps were short because of him feting used to daycare and then me doing ebt and no tacking on.
I can do the cn day this weekend. How do you think my day should look with 530 WU if i want a BT of 830/9? How long should Cn be? How long should A after cn be at this age?

[becj86]

Its a bit of a cross your fingers type thing. There's no hard and fast rule for A times by this age, unfortunately. I'd do something like this:
WU
5.5hr A
long nap
3.5 hr A
30min nap
2.5hr A
Bed

This is a once off thing to push WU considerably later - kinda like what I'd do if flying to a new time zone, yk? Be prepared for him to still wake around 5:30/6 but know you have to resettle to shift WU. I'd do whatever it takes to get him to resettle.

[My little Liam]

Ok great i think i will do it on sunday. FX!!!
Thanks for your help, i will be back to update!

One more question, lets say we get a later WU and then we get a good nap in, considering he is OT, what length of day would you do?

[becj86]

Just a normal length day - maybe BT 15-20min earlier but I wouldn't do anything to PD too UT from the decent nap, yk?

[My little Liam]

Ok i am glad i asked then! I was sure you would say 30min less at least...

How do i know what length of day he needs? 12hr, 12.5hr, 13hr?? Do some babies need shorter than 12hr?? I feel like i have no idea since he has been OT for the last few months...

[becj86]

I'd say try 12.5hr and tweak from there.

[My little Liam]

We got a lucky break i guess!
BT 610
NW 445-630
WU 820!!

So i guess i should start today then! He will probably still wake early tomorrow and i should resettle, right??

[My little Liam]

So looking back at my notes we had a day like this a few weeks ago while on holiday

BT 1855
NW 0530-0645
WU 0845
A 5hr20
S 1405-1630
A 4hr45
BT 2115
NW 0130-0245
WU 0645 here i was too lazy on vacation to resettle

I dont know if the long nw was UT, OT or just teeth?? We are teething canines badly but i dont remember if i gave meds that night...
What do you think?

[becj86]

I would reckon that would've been teeth - too late for OT and pretty early to be UT and with 4hr sleep thereafter, unlikely to be UT, yk?

I would start today and see how you get on. xx