can self settle but wakes crying through the night

[Skadiver13]

That's great that she's settling on her own. For the 4AM wake up what are you doing to get her back to sleep. It's so hard but I would pick a time for us it's 5:30 which is earlier than most who choose 6 as a time you accept as wake up but nothing before (unless sick of course). So if she wakes anytime before say 5:30 do what you need to do to get her back to sleep. For us at that age it was rocking back to sleep. I didn't have it in me at that time to deal with gradual withdrawl and settling in the crib. BUT if she's an independent sleeper than I would try working with her to get her back to sleep.

Are you sure she's not hungry? If you fed her at 5:30 and she slept till 7:45 trhat 4am wake up could in deed be hunger. I think the rule of thumb is they can go at night how long they go during the day at this age. So 3-4hrs at night? We didn't drop our night feed till 9-10M and he was on formula for BF it can be even longer.

What makes think she doesn't need the night feed?

[lyssie28]

When she she wakes at 4 i just give her her dummy and shush for a minute and walk straight back out.  She would normally settle and keep snoozing until a more acceptabke time but the other morning she was just awake.  I fed her, changed her nappy and made sure she wasnt too hot or cold but she wouldnt go back over.

We stopped the nightfeed because she started to waking every hour for milk and also she was only taking a couple oz.  When we first stopped it she went to one nw where she would be easy to resettle. 

When she reached 4 or 5 months old i stopped all rocking etc and she is an independant sleeper now.  So much so that if she wakes after a half hour nap or wakes early in the morning there's nothing i can do to get her back to sleep (if she not hungry etc) and if she wants to go to sleep she just rolls over and sleeps.  I'll keep tryin in the mornings to settle her.  I never pick her up through the night unless she seems hungry but i can put my hand on her chest and shush like i used to maybe that will help her.

[Skadiver13]

Hi Lyssie, is she waking because of the dummy? I guess is she waking because it falls out? For night feeding if you've weaned it all together and she's sleeping through GREAT.  But I would say if you do a DF at 10:30 and she wakes around 2:30/3 maybe feed her and then she should be good till she wakes and you'll know that 4am isn't due to food? That being said if she's used to Sleeping through with out a feed and you can settle at 4 go for it. I know with mine he never got a DF. So he was doing BT bottle, then one around 1 and another around 4:30/5. Then the one dissapeared around 7 months. But the other stayed at 4am until about 9 months then I weaned it when he stopped taking his morning bottle due to being full. Just my experience. I know some moms who will try to settle and if they do great, but if they wake up again with in 30-45min it's probably due to hunger. There is nothing wrong with trying to resettle first.

As for rocking, I'm so bad at that. It was my go to at that age when I couldn't settle my ds back down again and it worked but it was defeintely a prop on purpose.  That's great she's an Independant sleeper GREAT JOB!!! Resettling short naps is so difficult and at some point I remember just giving up and saying enough. I'd give it maybe 15min of trying and then would get him up. 

Long winded sorry. I guess that 4am could be developmental as well if she wasn't hungery. 4-5am is my sons witching hour. If he's uncomfortable going through a GS, SA or any other number of things and he wakes it's almost impossible to get him back to sleep. 

HTH

[lyssie28]

Hi, we thought it was the dummy but actually she cries whether she has it in her mouth or not.  At bedtime she will fall asleep with it but it doesn't bother her if it falls out.  If she can find it herself she just pops it back in.  I suppose my dd is like your son atm.  She is waking between 4 and 5am and isn't going back to sleep.  We've tried everything but I'm wondering if maybe she just isn't tired anymore.  I'm going to try and make her bedtime just a little later and shift the day forward a bit. Last night she had one of her worst nights.  I'm sure she never slept from 2am but then when I got her up for the day at 6.30 she wouldn't nap until 11! All week last week she didn't go down for her first nap until then as she was sleep until 7.45 and then when she was due another at around 3 half 3 she has just been playing in her cot for half an hour and then crying to be out.  I thought maybe she only needs one nap a day but I think it might be a knock on effect from her waking so much through the night as she is still too young for one nap.  She also will not take a morning bottle at the minute if she has one at 4 or 5am so I'm not sure what to do. 

 

[Skadiver13]

What do you do when she wakes up that early? Do you shush/pat, pupd wiwo?.

As for the nap refusals that's definitely not a one nap thing. She's entirely too young. I think she would just be dropping her third nap and into 2 at this age. Most babies don't drop the 2nd nap until 15-18Months. 

What's your current EASY

[lyssie28]

When she wakes up early i shush/pat and if that doesnt work i try feeding her and i check her nappy.

Currently her easy today has been;

Wu 5.00 tried to get back to sleep

Up for the day at 6.00

S 8.20 - 9.30

S 12.00 - 1.30

Refuses any more naps in bed at 6. 30

Sunday night didnt wake until 4am had a bottle then didnt wake until 7.45 and then last night she woke at 2am, 4am,5.20 nad didnt go back to sleep.

[Skadiver13]

It sounds like she needed that feed at 4 so it wokred well to feed her. I would do that (we did until ds was 10 then weaned it) For the night she woke at 2,4,5 did the day prior look any different? Could something else be bothering her? Solids you gave her the night before for lunch or dinner? Waking like that sounds developmental or could be discomfort?

The key is to be consistent with your wind-down routine for both nap and BT.
Try and keep your routine consistent during the day, naping at the same times. If you she refuses a nap (and she is a self-settler) than try for 20min. Get her up spend some very quiet low key time and try again a bit later.  I would also say her day is too long if she's waking at 1:30 and BT is at 6:30 than you are doing a 5hr A time before bed so she may wake from being OT. 

This is a sample 7 month old routine
2 to 3 hr. A time (longest in the morning)
two naps of 1.5-2 hours
early bedtime as catnap has been dropped
Total daytime sleep: 3-4 hours
Total nighttime sleep: 12 hrs. 45 mins. to 13 hrs. 15 mins.

Cooper is 7 months. Give or take 30-60min, goes something like this

E  7.00 - 7.30am Wake and Breast Feed
A  8.00 Breakfast then play
S  9.30 NAP (1.5-2 hrs)
E  11.30 Wake and Breast Feed
A  12.00 Lunch
S  1.30 NAP (1.5-2 hrs)
E  4.00 Breast Feed
A  4.30 Dinner
A  5.30 Bath and Massage
S  6.15 BED till morning

[lyssie28]

Thanks i think i'll give that routine a try.  If she wakes really early though should i still wait until the set nap time or thereabouts? Just thinking if she wakes at say 4am but i dont get her up properly until 7 should i give her an earlier nap? But then her naps will fall short again and she'd have too long an A time before bed.

I haven't noticed anything different in her days and infact her day on sunday was very bad as she had a bad night on the saturday and was ot all day and wouldn't settle for any of her naps but then she had a great night. 

I-ll try being more consistent about times and get her up at the same time everyday.  I think its knocks the whole routine off qhen she gets up later.

[Skadiver13]

Hi Lyssie don't just follow the routine becuase it's there. It's just a suggestions. Look at what you are doing know and tailor her routine. You don't just want to up and switch everything on  her. I think she's combination OT and developmental. For Sunday night she most likely just crashed from OT and slept through. My LO is known to do that.

It's ok if you let her sleep in as night sleep is more restorative than day sleep but you can always set a time like 7:30. that's maybe 30min past what she normally does but not too much so that it ruins the whole day. Then you'd just move eveyrthing else by 30min.
 If that's what works for you.

As for waking at 4am, she's not up for the day at that time correct? I would pick a time (for us it's 6) that if ds wakes up before then he is not up for the day. I'll work on resettling him until 6 comes around.  Remind me again she's a self settler for bt and nt correct? no rocking, feeding etc to sleep?

[lyssie28]

Ok yeah i understand.  I'll look at her day and how i might be able tweak her routine a bit and help her with the last A time.  She self settles.  I can put her in her cot after her nap/bt routine and just walk out of the room.  She cuddles her pluto dog and goes to sleep.  If she wakes at 4 i don't get her up but can be back and forwards to her room constantly so even though she's awake she's still in her cot.  I've never tried to do pu/pd or anything and the earliest i get her up is 6 but really i try to aim for 7 but it depends because sometimes she will work herself up into a right strop because she wants to be up.