EASY at bedtime- need some help getting bub down to sleep

[Alioopsa]

My baby girl is 17 weeks old and we have been doing EASY since birth. She has 2 x 2 hour sleeps in the day and 1x 45 minute sleep in the late afternoon to tie her over until bedtime. She is able to self settle for her daytime sleeps and her A time is 1 hr45 to 2 hours. She is still wrapped and in her cot with the room darkened with block out curtains and lullaby music (only on while she baths and gets ready for bed then we turn it off and sing a bedtime song).

We are having lots of trouble getting her to sleep when it is bedtime.
We put her down to bed around 7 to 7:30pm depending on when she woke from her nap.
When she wakes we feed, play, bath, massage and bed (A time approx 1hr 45). I try to keep this last uptime not too stimulating.
When we put her down to bed she will either scream at us or lie there and chat and try to go to settle herself to sleep. However she will then start screaming. We use pat/shh and p.u/p.d. She will often start to have a hungry cry and so I have to top her up (bf), then put her down. Sometimes she will fall asleep on the breast and then wake 45 minutes later. I try to not let her fall asleep on the breast though and put her down awake and repeat the settling. This can go on for hours- usually until about 10pm. This then affects when she wakes the next day. She wakes anywhere from 6:45am to 8am. She has always cluster fed at this time and I try to give her an extra feed after bath. The first 12 weeks of this we put down to 'witching hour' but now it is still continuing and we are not sure why.

Any suggestions of what to do would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

[jessmum46]

Hi Ali and welcome to the BW site . Congratulations on your LO - she's very cute!

It sounds like you are doing really well with the EASY routine - I would have killed for naps that good at four months!  In the first instance I would suggest perhaps moving her BT a touch earlier.  The reason for that is that her last nap is not a full nap, so she won't be fully rested by it.  Usually that means that babies can't handle as much A time afterwards as usual and need their A time shortening.  It would be quite typical to have 2h A time for most of the day and then as short as 1h15-30 after the catnap.  It sounds like she is getting OT and then struggling to settle, so by moving BT 15-30 mins earlier you may find she settles much easier

Good luck and let us know how you get on x

[Khalam's Mama]

I was thinking the same thing, waking 45 minds into bt and in the early evening is classic ot.

[Alioopsa]

Thank you so much for this. It makes sense now that she would be overtired as I am keeping her up too long after her nap. I will move her bedtime forward and let you know how we go this week.

I'm looking forward to seeing how she goes.
 
Thank you 

[jessmum46]

Keep us posted x

[Alioopsa]

Just a quick update

So far we are having some success getting Elle down to bed better at night.
During the day I am making sure that I push out her A time to 2 hours and have a 30 minute wind down towards the end of her uptime. This involves getting carried around the house and having cuddles. I have implemented this after bath time too which has helped in settling at bedtime a lot, as prior to this we were doing bath and straight into bed.

I have shortened her last A time as suggested and she is settling to bed better at around 6:30/7pm depending on when she woke from her nap.
However she is still waking spot on 45 minutes after going down. I top her up and put her back down to bed, however she will whinge/cry and not go back to sleep (using pat/shh and p.u/p.d as needed when she is very upset) for about 1hour 45minutes to 2 hours. It's almost like she counts the 45 minute sleep like another nap and wants to get back up for one more A time.

Any idea on what to try or just keep persisting?

Thanks,

Ali

[jessmum46]

Hi again Ali, sorry to hear you're still having trouble.  Could you post what your typical daytime routine is now?

Is she going to sleep independently yet?

The waking so soon after bedtime still sounds like OT behaviour to me, that was usually the culprit here.  But discomfort could be another thought - is she teething?  Any trouble with gas/reflux/poops?  Has she started any solids yet?

[Alioopsa]

Hi Katherine,

We have made a little progress as she is going down to sleep at bedtime more easily.. She is just not staying down after the first sleep cycle.

Yep, she independently self settles no problems during the day. Usually talks to herself for about 2 minutes and goes to sleep.
She could be teething as she is chewing her fingers a lot but no trouble with gas/reflux or poos.
I haven't started solids as yet. I usually feed her when she wakes up 45 minutes after going down to bed  and she will have a both sides so I think she may still be hungry (despite feeding her when she last woke and after her bath). She used to cluster feed like crazy at this time of the day up until about 12 weeks so maybe she is still doing this in a way?

Her general day starts anywhere from 6:45am to 7:45am so sleep and waking times vary each day but roughly follow as below

E: 7am
A: 7:30am
S: 9am
Y

E: 11am
A: 11:20
S: 1pm
Y.          (This sleep time varies from 45 min to 2 hours)

E: 2:30pm
A: 2:20pm
S: 4:30pm
Y

E: 5:15pm
A: 5:35
S: 6:45pm
Y

Thank you for your help

[jessmum46]

On days where she has a 45 min second nap what do you do with the third nap?  Do you notice bedtime and wakings being better/worse on those days?

Her routine overall though looks really good.  It could be a transitioning between sleep cycles problem or I guess it could possibly be habit.  Does she take good feeds after her catnap and before bed?  I wonder if it's worth getting rid of the feed after the catnap to encourage her to take a better BT feed, and then you know she isn't hungry when she wakes 45 mins later?  Then you could persist in resettling using shh pat?

[Alioopsa]

On days she has a 45minute nap for her second nap, she usually still only has 45minute nap for her third nap. I have been keeping a sleep diary for a couple of weeks and have not observed a difference at bedtime if she only has a 45 minute nap for her second nap. If anything she is a bit more grizzly.

She has now gone back to not wanting to go to sleep at all at bedtime and cries. So this can take 1-2 hours of settling before she goes to sleep. When this happens she will not wake after 45 minutes. She will keep sleeping as she is exhausted.

We have tried changing a few different things for about a week at a time but nothing is helping make bedtime easier e.g. Cutting the third nap, putting her to bed earlier, keeping her up later.

 We usually have to pat and shh her to sleep as she fights bedtime. We are used to bedtime being a pain now so we are just hoping she will grow out of it. At least we are not losing sleep over it, I guess we are lucky that she doesn't do this in the middle of the night. Usually only wakes once of twice for a feed and goes back to sleep and self settles during the day.  

If we have any break-throughs I will update you, but at this stage we will persist with bedtime routine and hope she gets it one day

Thank you

[jessmum46]

No problem always v happy to try to offer suggestions if things change x