6 month old, needs schedule help

[meirsmom]

Hi all, redirected here from the PU/PD board. Have had tremendous success with PU/PD-shush-pat thanks to the help from the awesome ladies on this forum! Over the last 1.5 months, have moved my son from 100% rocking in lap to 100% sleeping in cot, now with minimal shush-pat. He even settles to sleep on his own 2 times out of 5, and we hope he is on his way to becoming an independent sleeper.

Here is a sample routine for the day:

0700 wake-up
0700 to 0730 A time
0730 solids (pureed fruit, typically)
0730 to 0830 A time
0830 to 0845 Bottle feed
0845 to 0900 wind-down
0900 down for 1st nap
0945 wake-up
0945 to 1045 A time
1045 to 11.15 Bath
11.15 to 11.30 Bottle feed
11.30 to 11.45 wind-down
11.45 down for 2nd nap
1415 wake-up
1415 to 1545 A time
1545 to 1600 Bottle feed
1600 to 1615 wind-down
1615 down for 3rd nap
1700 wake-up
1700 to 1800 A time
1800 to 1830 solids (pureed fruit)
1830 to 1845 Bottle feed
1845 to 1900 wind-down (including bedtime routine, pajamas, etc)
1900 down for sleep

I know this isn't exactly EASY, but from advice on this forum I have tried to move the Bottle feed to at least 15-30 minutes before his S time.

Of late, baby has started teething, and the 2.5 hour afternoon nap has become fragmented into 2 naps of 45 minutes-1 hour each. So now there are 4 naps in the day instead of 3.

When that happens, his bedtime gets pushed to 8 or 9 PM, but he still wakes up at 6 or 7 am (although he is still sleeping through the night without waking for a feed - for which I'm thankful.) However, this is creating 3 problems:

1. He's getting only 10 hours of sleep at night (and another 4 hours of sleep in the day over 4 naps)
2. He's waking up waaay to early in the morning
3. He's not having the long, restorative naps he needs.

What can I do to improve this situation? Your inputs will be hugely appreciated!

[meirsmom]

Ladies, looking forward to your responses!

The short naps during the day have become a real problem, esp as he was napping so well (at least 1 nap for 2.5 hours) before!

Also pls suggest how do I move him to a 4-hour feeding schedule. Have read the book, will appreciate your practical tips. Thanks!

[Ima shel Alon]

Hi there!

It sounds to me that the biggest problem is that his A times are way too short for his age. He should be closer to 3h right now, dropping the 3rd CN and staying on just two naps. There is a very good link about it: All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months
So I would try and gradually increase his A times, by 10-15min every 3-4 days (you'd need to be quite consistent when you do that) and stop when you are more around 3h A time or naps have lengthened again to min. 1.5h long.
I believe that once his A times are naps are more age appropriate then it will help with the EW and lengthening his night again.

[meirsmom]

Dear Ima shel Alon, thank you so much for your detailed response! You're a lifesaver.

Will implement the gradual lengthening of his A times. I tried that today, with the result that he very quickly got overtired and slept only 1 hour for his afternoon nap. Is that to be expected?

What's happening for the last 3 days is, when we try and put him down for his 3rd (sometimes, but rarely nowadays, 4th) nap at around 5 PM, he just doesn't go down. Cries, flops around the cot. We leave him to try and self-settle, he doesn't. We shush-pat him, he just cries even more. As a result, he stays awake right until 7-7.30 PM, by which time he's completely hyper (he's been up since 3 PM). Then he goes to sleep.

Why do you suppose this is happening? Is it related to the shortening of his 1st/2nd naps? Is all of this because of teething, d'you think? Or because of any 6-month sleep regression/transition thingy?

Just that we worked really hard with the PUPD/shush-pat to establish good sleeping habits and nap routines, but now it's all disrupted, don't want to get into accidental parenting and undo all the good work, if it's just a phase!

What should we do, specifically, if he's going to resist the 3rd nap so vigorously? Should we drop the nap and give him A time, should we insist on him napping and continue to do s-p/PUPD? What we're doing right now, is taking him for a drive and see if he naps in the car.

Thanks once again!

[Can6883]

Hi meirsmom,

I'm certainly no expert but when I'm also experimenting with my LOs routine. Currently 10mo and trying to reduce from 3-2 day naps. At 10 months he hound certainly be on just 2 naps according to everyone's advice. The last nap of the day he would fight and eventually go own - but as a result This too would push out his bedtime as he'd be too hyperactive even after repeating the wind own routine.

I took the advice in the 3-2 nap transition (link was shared in a previous response) which was if you think your LO can't make the full A time from the 2nap to bedtime "don't be afraid to bring the bedtime forward". It goes on to say it doesn't mean they'll wake earlier. I have done this 2 nights now, in addition to stretching his morning A time out more and while his daytime naps haven't improved, I'm no longer going through the struggle of the evening catnap and he's really ready for bedtime - and he slept 11.5 hours (with 1 brief NW) where he'd previously go only 10hrs.

From memory one of the signs your LO may be ready to drop a nap are shorter 45 min day naps (which you have), another is the onset of EW (there are others too).

I think the logic is that too many naps in the day steals from their nighttime sleep. And I'd agree as his previous NWs when on 3 naps were over an hour and he just wanted to play!

It's difficult to know but I really found that link useful.

[Ima shel Alon]

Will implement the gradual lengthening of his A times. I tried that today, with the result that he very quickly got overtired and slept only 1 hour for his afternoon nap. Is that to be expected?

Sure. It takes about 4 days till they settle into a new A time and even then you might need to continue increasing it if it's not yet enough. Don't give up.

What's happening for the last 3 days is, when we try and put him down for his 3rd (sometimes, but rarely nowadays, 4th) nap at around 5 PM, he just doesn't go down. Cries, flops around the cot. We leave him to try and self-settle, he doesn't. We shush-pat him, he just cries even more. As a result, he stays awake right until 7-7.30 PM, by which time he's completely hyper (he's been up since 3 PM). Then he goes to sleep.

This is so common when baby is ready to drop the CN, it's actually the clearest sign. I know that it's really hard right now because he doesn't sleep enough and you also don't get the sleep you need, but your best option is to just keep on pushing those A times.

What should we do, specifically, if he's going to resist the 3rd nap so vigorously? Should we drop the nap and give him A time, should we insist on him napping and continue to do s-p/PUPD? What we're doing right now, is taking him for a drive and see if he naps in the car.

pp really said it all, I would give an EBT a try.

[meirsmom]

Thanks Can6883 and Ima. I guess we either did the wrong thing, or the wrong thing happened - because he wouldn't sleep at about 5 PM, we took him for a drive and when we were reaching home, around 6.20, he slept off. We transferred him from car-seat to his cot, he awoke briefly, crying at the disturbance, but went back to sleep.

He awoke at 7 pm, we gave him a feed and tried to settle him back to sleep, but he's wide awake.

Now it seems as if he'll take his usual 2-hour A time and go to sleep only around 9 pm :-(

Isn't this the complete opposite of what we were trying to do, an early bedtime?

Should we have let him be awake till 7/7.30, like the last 3 days, instead of hoping he'd nap in the car?

Please help, would like to do the right thing. Thanks again.

[Ima shel Alon]

An EBT would be not to have the third nap at all. Are you keeping pushing A times all the time?

[meirsmom]

Hi again. We are moving cities tomorrow, have been in the midst of packing up the whole house, so, to be honest, have not been able to push his bedtimes too consistently. I plan to start doing that properly from Monday onwards.

Currently am faced with 2 scenarios:
1. He wakes up from 2nd nap at 2 PM (or thereabouts) and refuses to go down for 3rd nap at 4 PM, then becomes increasingly cranky and sleeps at 6.15 PM for 45 minutes. Wakes up at 7 pm, finally we put him down at 8.30 pm and he goes to sleep by 8.45 PM.

2. He wakes up from 2nd nap at 3 PM (or thereabouts) and refuses to go down for 3rd nap at 5 PM, gets cranky and stays up till 7.30 PM, when he sleeps for the night.

I'm wondering, if in the 1st scenario, should I absolutely refuse to put him down at 6.15 PM and push him till 7, when he'll hopefully sleep for the night? Or should I try to put him down at about 5.30/6 and try for a short 30 minute catnap?

I know you said 3rd nap should be dropped, but he's just (very recently) moved from 4 naps to 3, will he be giving up 3rd nap also so quickly? Isn't that too drastic? Should I let him settle at 3 naps and encourage him to drop 3rd nap say in 2 weeks time or so?

Do let me know what you think, thanks!

[Ima shel Alon]

The only way for him to drop the CN is to be on about 3h A times and relatively good naps, so this would be my goal IIWY. Increase A times all the time till you are at about 3h or so (he might be ok on a bit less than that).
IIWY I would do a CN in the scenarios you mentioned, but a short one, so not more than 30min and then go for a set BT of what you want BT to actually be. For example you decide you want to set BT at 19:30. So he wakes up at 14 or 15, of course he will refuse a nap 2h later because he is not tired enough, so I would do a 30min CN at 17:30 or 18, wake up at about 18, 18:30 and then start BT routine aiming for 19:30. It's not magic, it's not going to happen in a day, but I think it helps if you set BT. And this all is not going to work unless he is on age appropriate A times.

[meirsmom]

Dear Ima, what you've said makes perfect sense. I am following what you've recommended about a CN if gap between BT and last wake-up is more than 3/3.5 hours. I've tried putting him down at 2.5 hours from last wake-up, he just resists it a lot. So will try it earliest at 3 hours.

Will also start pushing out his A times towards 3 hours.

There are days, like yesterday, when his day naps are brilliant (2.5 hours morning and 1.5 hours afternoon) so the 3rd nap is simply not required and he goes straight to bedtime. Then there are days like today, when his first nap is 2 hours (or thereabouts) but the 2nd one is only 45 minutes, hence a 3rd CN is needed to get him to BT. I don't know what I do differently to have his naptimes differ so much on a day-to-day basis.

Thanks once again, will keep you posted.