4 Month Routine - HELP!!

[hynygirl]

Could use some help with this transition.  I'm feeling a little deflated.  My daughter is 19 weeks old and we have recently - and very succesfully - weaned her pacifier.  It had become a prop and we went through 2.5 weeks of waking ever 45mins-1hour in the night to have it put back in.  So my husband and I combined forces with PU/PD and weaned it, which went extremely well, it's as if she completely forgot about it to get to sleep almost instantly.  I was quite surprised how easy it was actually and she is now sleeping straight through the night 11.5-12 hours!  So this is where my problem lies - we are transitioning to a 4 hour schedule and following the tips in the book for slowing increasing awake and feeding times by 15 min increments.  I have tried dedicating days to do this but unfortunatly life sometimes gets in the way and with outings and such our naptimes aren't always ideal.  So we're taking it slow and not pushing it to hard to extend the times.  We have our mornings down pat.  She wakes at 7:00am, eats, activity at 7:30 and down for a nap at 9:00am no problem.  Wakes at 10:30, eat, activity and down again at 12:30 until 2pm.  This is where things get difficult.  We're in the stage where we are trying to cut out her evening catnap.  We keep activity pretty calm and try to keep her distracted.  The problem is because she is so tired she's struggling with not having a pacifier to soothe her and she is soooo cranky! There is a lot of crying and we sometimes have to put her down for a catnap.  There is no consoling her through this wanting her pacifier in awake time.  We have some teethers that she will chew on for a bit and seem content but then they very quickly become not good enough.  She will suck on her hand when she's happy and not sleepy but she doesn't seem to be able to find her hands when she is in this cranky state.  It seems everyday now between 4:30 and 7pm time frame (whether there's a nap in there or not) she is very tired and wants a nap or a pacifier. When we do put her down for a nap she cries and fights it so hard or only sleeps for a short time.  Sorry for the long winded post, I'm just trying not to miss anything.  Any advise or words of encouragement? I'm so glad we weaned the pacifier, it has made such a difference in her sleep but it is so hard in the awake and cranky times!

[hynygirl]

I should also mention that we are exclusively breastfeeding and she transitions well to waiting between feeds, she is a very efficient feeder and takes her fill.  She can make it 4 hours no problem between feeds.  It's the awake time that is posing the problems and the need for pacifier to soothe (which we will not give into!).  We also stopped doing the dream feed and she wakes every time no matter how careful and quiet I am and it causes a disturbance in the night.  By cutting out the dreamfeed she actually sleeps better.

[Buttonbobs]

If I'm reading it right you're doing a 2 hr A time through most of the day. Could you move BT a bit earlier - say 6.30 - so it's nearer to two hours. She might cope better with the time to BT with it moved earlier. You might find that the night gets longer to cope with this, but there's no way of knowing until you try it.

Did you transition quickly to a four hour EASY? While the sleep looks great, many bf babies don't manage a 4 hr gap between feeds until solids are introduced. Are you sure her grumpiness isn't perhaps hunger?

[hynygirl]

Her activity time is 2 hours in the first part of the day.  She can't make it that long in the afternoons.  She's not fully on a 4 hour schedule just yet. I'm starting to think the transition is too fast for her and we should slow down.  Our BT's seem to be getting worse and it's hard to get her to settle for bed.  I'm pretty sure hunger is not a factor.  She's always been an efficient eater and takes in a lot.  There's even times when I'll try feeding her and she doesn't eat much because she's just not that hungry.  I might start trying to increase the times by 5 minute increments instead of the 15mins as suggested in the book. 
This is creating tension between my husband and I because he thinks we should give her soother back.  I must admit I've had weak moments thinking he's right but try to remind myself we've come this far.  She's just so fussy when going down for her afternoon naps and BT.  I really hope it's just overtired because I'm so afraid that by taking her soother away we may start some other form of accidental parenting. Sigh

[Mom-of-boys]

My DS2 just turned 4 months too so I hear what you're saying about transitioning to the 4-hr EASY.  Some days we're at 4 hrs, sometimes 3.5, it kind of depends on how long he naps for.  Right now for us, we're having a morning nap, an afternoon nap starting at 12:30/1:00, and a catnap around 5:00-5:30 for 30-45 minutes.  We could definitely not go without the catnap.  At this age I thought the catnap was still pretty typical.  Could it be that the evening grumpiness is just overstimulation from the whole day and tiredness?  When my LO is really tired, he will just wail when we put him down for a nap, but then with his soother he falls asleep within a few minutes, so I know he's tired.  Maybe even if you can't get her to nap, you could try a really quiet activity in a dim room.  Even if your LO only sleeps a bit, it might make bedtime easier so she's not completely OT. 

[Buttonbobs]

Yes. Some LOs do need a slower transition, and I think there is a 5min increment example on this site somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.

I'm not sure if I made sense before, I was suggesting making the A time before BT shorter not longer. Maybe I misread your original post, but it looks like there are  2.5 hours between WU for the nap at 430 and BT at 7. I was suggesting trying BT at 6.30 to make the a time shorter. If j have misread it, could you post a day on EAS format so I can help more.

Many LOs do have a grumpy period in the later afternoon, but it would be good if we can avoid it xx

[hynygirl]

I'm sure my post of our EASY schedule was unclear as well.  Here is a typical day for us:

7 - wake/eat
7:30 - A
9 - S
10:30 - E
11 - A
12:15 - S
1:45 - E
2:15 - A
3/3:30 - S
4:15/4:30 - Wake and play - I try to hold off feeding unil 4:45/5
At 6 we try to put her down for a catnap which sometimes works and sometimes its a fight
We do her last feed at 7/7:15, bath, bed

I feel like in trying to transition our afternoons are all screwed up.  I don't know what to do. Should I go back to the basics and start all over!? I'm so lost.  We keep our evening activity low key and some days she's ok but other days she is so cranky!
We were doing so good prior to this and in taking away her soother around the same time as starting the transition I feel conflicted as to what the problem is.  Taking the soother away started great, she did fine without it and started sleeping through the night for a week straight.  Then all this crankiness started.  The last 3 nights she has gone to sleep around 7:30 but has woke at 9ish.  One night I was able to rest my hand on her tummy and shh for a min and she went to sleep easily.  Lastnight she cried for an hour before I got her back to sleep - I think she had a tummy ache lastnight though because there were a few burps when I first picked her up (and I'm sure with all the hysterical screaming she was swallowing air).  She has also woke up hungry the last two nights - last night was at 4am and the previous night at 5am.  So it's possible she's also having a growth spurt.  Today I am pumping like mad to increase my supply. But in the interim, like I said, I am at a loss.  I was so very close to popping a soother in her mouth last night out of desperation. But I didn't.  I do wonder though - if we were to give her soother back do you think it would go back to causing a sleep problem? I find the evenings so tough. It's been 2 weeks without it. 1 week ok and the other week hell! I'm sure if I gave it back it would just get harder to take it away again. right?
Any suggestions for our routine and maybe some advice on the soother situation would be greatly appreciated. 

[Buttonbobs]

So in summary you are doing two 1.5 hour naps and trying to do two CNs as well. What about moving that third nap a bit later (in te example day you gave me what about not putting down until 3.45 and letting her sleep for 1.5 hours then too - a wake up of 5.15 should give you a comfortable 2 hour A time to a good 7.15 ish BT. What do you think?

Just to avoid confusion, A time includes the E and is really everything from eyes open to eyes closed again. Hope that helps x

[Mom-of-boys]

I agree with Buttonbobs...I would give her a longer nap towards the end of the day and as long as she's having a decent enough A time before bed, she should still be tired enough to go to sleep.  As far as the soother question goes, it's really your call but I will tell you our soother experience.  With DS1 I would have to replug him 2-3 times a night until he could put the soother in himself.  So far with our 4 mo DS2 the soother hasn't been an issue at all.  He uses it to fall asleep but doesn't seem to wake up when it falls out.  I definitely don't blame you if you've finally worked out not using the soother and don't want to go through that again...on the other hand if you did decide to try the soother again, maybe it might be saving your sanity . If you did decide to try the soother again, you could try giving it to her during wind down and then take if out when she falls asleep so she doesn't get used to having it in her mouth while sleeping.  Another option I've heard is to let them have it to fall asleep and then try other means of soothing if she wakes up during the night.  Not sure if that's helpful, But I guess at the end of the day you have to do what you think works best for you and your family.

[hynygirl]

Thank you ladies.  I am all for moving the afternoon nap a bit later and longer but the reason it seems to be two catnaps in the afternoons is because she's waking up and we have been unsuccesful getting her back to sleep.  In all honestly because it's falling around dinner time we don't put that much effort in so perhaps we should try pu/pd to extend this nap time. I've just now put her down for a nap and it's 3:45pm - there was a bit of fussing but I was able to leave her and I can hear her talking herself to sleep in the next room.  Fingers crossed I can have her sleep longer then the norm and tonight will be a good night.
As for the soother goes, I am undecided. I'm really afraid it would become a prop again and I have grown to like sleeping through the night as opposed to getting up every hour.  I guess that is "to be continued" for now.
Thank you for the suggestions.  We will continue to try to work out these afternoons.

[Buttonbobs]

I think the waking early from that first CN is probably because she was a little UT for it. It is almost impossible to resettle a nap that an LO is not quite tired enough for. But we'll soon see, well done for going for the new time a stick with that for a few days and see how she progresses. X