Help me with night time EASY, DF and cluster feeds with a 5 day old..

[Mackjack]

Hello,
DS arrived 5 days a go and as EASY worked so amazingly well with my DD, I'd like to do it with him too.

As he's so young, we don't yet have a regular BT or wake up time  - I'm not really sure what counts as our wake up time at the mo - but during the day, he's on a 3 hr EASY (he was 8lb 12oz at birth), is going down for good naps too. I'm just a bit confused about a couple of things.

1. BW book gives an example EASY for a 4 week old (which I assume i apply  to him even though he's so young?) but seems to advise 3 normal naps a day and then the last two are cat naps with cluster feeds. The naps he's having at the mo he seems to be waking up from naturally and I'm just letting him wake naturally day and night. So should I start 'making' him do cat naps by waking him up early from the last two naps of the day?

2. Cluster feeds and DF - he is sleepy/falls asleep for most feeds and I cannot, no matter how hard I try, get him to feed when he's sleepy - so I really doubt I could do the DF. And the other thing is, he's doing that weird thing where normally in the early hours of the morning he has an attack of wind/gripe and cries on/off for about 1-2 hours. It's definitely griping/windy pains as he's pumping his legs, grimacing, squirming and then as soon as he passes wind/burps he relaxes and this goes on and on.... It's like the wind builds throughout the day and he gets these attacks at night. So I'm worried that if I cluster feed him, this will make the wind worse??

3. At night time, if he wakes anywhere near the 3 hour mark, I feed him as I'm assuming he's too young for me to be trying to get him back to sleep rather than feed? Is that right? The whole gripey/windy episode makes it hard to see a pattern at night times yet. So he's just kind of on a 3 hour EASY day and night.

Any advice would be much appreciated! Oh, and any tips on relieving the wind attacks would DEFINITELY be appreciated!

Thanks

[Mackjack]

...should probably also mention that I'm BFing.

[Mackjack]

...one more thing! When he wakes at night,  I just feed and them put him straight back in his cot, yes? Even if he's asleep from the feed (he's very hard to wake) - this won't teach him to associate feeding with sleeping?

[Ima shel Alon]

Congratulations on your new baby!

IMO he is pretty far from doing a 4 week old baby's routine. At this age I would just let a baby be, not wake up, let him sleep how long he wants, however he wants and try to enjoy him as much as you can.
You know yourself that the newborn snuggles only last for a short time .
Right now what you should "expect" him to do is to feed and sleep when he wants and slowly get used to the world.

Cluster feeding and DF is not by any means a must. It's just a suggestion Tracey made when parents want to try and have their LO sleeping longer at night. There is plenty of time for all that, when you'll need, if you need - you'll know it .
And yes, at night time you are doing fine putting him straight back to sleep. At night there are no A times so one would also not expect a baby to go down drowsy or awake, yk?

Are you burping him properly after every feed? That helped us a lot with him being so uncomfortable in the early hours of the morning.

[Mackjack]

Thanks so much for your advice. As it goes, his natural pattern seems to be falling into a 3hr EASY but as you suggest, I won't try to force it. Last night he went to bed at 9 and only woke at 1am and 5.45 for feeds and then slept til 9.50am which was rather nice! But I'm fully expecting this to be totally different tonight!Yes, I need to remember this snuggly period is not forever!

Burping....yep, we are burping for Britain in this house! Seems like the wind that really gives him pain is tyre type that comes out the other end. He cries forever and then the tiniest trump ands he relaxes...poor little thing.

[Mackjack]

Sorry another q! How do I know what to treat as a night feed? I.e the other night he went to bed at 9.10pm, woke at 1am for a feed and went straight back to bed, then again at 5.45am - I put him back to bed after this one too and he slept til 9.50am. But I wasnt sure whether to  treat the 5.45 as the start of his day ie let him have a bit of A time? Also last night he went to bed at 11ish (wouldve been earlier but he had oneof his wind attacks). He woke at 3.45am and then 7.30 - I'm still feeding him now and I'm not sure whether to put him straight back to bed or whether this is the start of his day?

[Ima shel Alon]

Usually one allows a 12h night, but if you'll move your day to 22-10 or 21-9 you might get into trouble. It works for few babies, yes, but most babies wake up at 6-7-8 and would need to have BT accordingly, not the other way around.

[Shiv52]

At this stage I wouldn't start the day at 5.45 in case it encourages a silly early start every day over time.  So I'd have resettled to sleep at 5.45 for sure!

He's still so little that I wouldn't worry too much. In  a few weeks you'll find it'll be easier to get a more established bedtime and wake up. At this stage appreciate the sleep when you are getting it!

[Mackjack]

Hi,
Firstly, just wanted to say thank you both for your advice and apologies for not saying so sooner! Everything you said makes sense and no, I certainly don't want to encourage a 5.45 wake up!

While I'm trying not to 'force' a routine, I'm very keen to encourage him into a good EASY.  He's been on a 3 hr routine (5 feeds a day, 2 a night) for a good few days now (he's 2 weeks old) and is waking just a couple of times at night. He still falls asleep during feeds and then doesn't feed fully and sometimes wants the next feed earlier as he's hungry - then falls asleep on that feed etc etc  - it's a vicious cycle!)

Would you mind looking at my EASY and seeing if you think this is ok or not? Also, the past couple of days, he's had a fussy period in between his fourth and fifth feed where he's not wanted to nap and seemed to want to feed - is this him naturally cluster-feeding? Do babies do that??!

Yesterday and today's EASY looked like this

WEDs

E 7.20am
S 8.55 - 9.50am
E 10.15am
S 11.40-13.15
E 13.15
S aargh, can't remember when he went to sleep - sorry!
E 15.00 fell asleep mid feed so didn't feed properly and fed again soon after
E16.30
S 18.15-19.15
E 19.15
S 20.30 (needed a short shh pat)
E 00.25
S 01.20
E 04.25
S 05.15

THURS
E 07.15am
S 08.30am
E 10.00am
S 11.10 am
E 13.10
S 14.55 (needed short shh pat)
E 16.10 - could not get him to nap after this - not sure if it was because I was trying to make dinner and during that time he dirtied his nappy so time just went on and he got OT??)
E18.40 seemed hungry
S 20.15 took 3 attempts to get him down and a bit of shh pat

Thank you!

[Ima shel Alon]

Hi there!

I think that his A times are tiny bit too long. At his age he is suppose to do about 50-60min A times (Average A times- BOOKMARK ME! ) so over an hour is probably too much for him. I would try and shorten it a bit IIWY. But at the same time if you are confident that he is NOT OT then don't change anything.
Are you sure that the frequent hunger cues in the evening ARE indeed hunger signs? Could he be OT? Sometimes hunger and sleepy cues seem very much alike...

[Mackjack]

Thank you - I'm not confident hes not ot to be honest - but because he often falls asleep on the.breast, and then maybe wakes up for a bit, falls asleep again etc it's hard to judge how long his A times actually are. And often I have to change his nappy during a feeed to wake hime which extends his E/A time- aargh what to do!

[Ima shel Alon]

I would try and keep him awake after a feed if you can, but I know this can be a difficult task.
It's still early days so it WILL get easier once he is older and can stay awake for longer.
For now if he falls asleep at the breast I would try and wake him and then have no more than 50-60min A time.

[shannoncorrin]

I wanted to mention a way to help the gas.  They make gas drops that we give BEFORE we feed him and the work wonders.

[Mackjack]

Thanks all for the advice. Things have gone downhill recently and althoigh hes only 3 wks old I'm feeling pretty desperate as I can't bear to go through the same nightmare I went through with DD.

Basically he can't quite seem to self-settle and bed time the last 2 nights have been a nightmare with him missing his final nap of the day because we can't get  him to sleep. I still struggleto keephim awake during feeds but sometimes manage to wake him. EASy has been like this

Tues
E 6.30 settled back to sleep as though a night feed- no A time
S 7.00
E 9.40
S 10.25 couldnt wake him from feed so he went down asleep
- woke 45mins later at 11 crying. Was a bit sick then stopped crying but couldnt go back to sleep
E 12.45
s 13.40 - 15.40 - went down asleep again
E 15.40
S 16.50 - 18.30 - went down asleep again
E 18.35
s tried from 19.30 to get him to sleep but just would not settle
E 21.20 was still awake so fed him
s 22.00 fell asleep on breast put him down asleep
e 00.35
S 1.10
E3.25
S 3.55

Weds
E 6.00 - rather than putting him back down I treated this as the start of the day anf let him  hsve a little A time
s 7.40 - wouldn't settle so did ssh pat and he slept 45mins til 8.25 then also slept on/off in car on schoolrun
E 9.10
S 10.15 settled himself to sleep but woke screaming 45mins later at 11. Slept about 10 mins more in car
E 12.10
S 13.20-15.40 settled himself
E 15.40
S 16.20-18.20 went down asleep
E 18.30
S tried at 19.30 but wouldn't settle. Got him in cot and he kept crying then relaxing, crying then relaxing repeatedly. Did ssh pat eventually and he slept just 20mins

J

[Mackjack]

Sorry hadn't finished - I should also mention he has suspected mild silent reflux.
 When he self settled those few times, he did sometimes cry or in pain but got himself back to sleep.

What is going on? I'm trying so hard to teach him to self settle - soothing him on my shoulder and pitting him down drowsy when I can. The irony is he sleeps so well when put dowm asleep - I would've thought he wouldnt as this is kind of AP which for me would normally mean a 45min nap.  I feel so elated when he has a good sleep and so, so frustrated and down when he doesnt. Please, please help me