PUPD for 1 year old - Advise please

[DKM]

Hi, I have started the last couple of nights doing PUPD with my 1 year old. He goes to bed at 7:30, he has a nice bedtime routine, finishes his bottle and then into cot. There was a lot of putdowns tonight which ended in tears but I think it was successful all-in-all. It lasted 45 minutes.
My routine was that I repeat to him when putting him down that its 'sleepy time' and 'time for sleepies', as soon as he pulls himself up I pick him up enough to get him completely off the mattress and place him back down on his side facing away from me. I speak occasionally to reassure him and maybe rub his back or hair slightly. I also give him a little water in the night if he wakes before tackling the PUPD and I'm wondering should I also try to get rid of?
The reason I started to do the PUPD was because he was waking a lot in the night and sometimes taking as long as 1.5 hours to get back to sleep (so exhausting), I'm hoping with a little perseverance that it'll maybe stop the night waking. I guess the reason I'm posting is because im insure if I'm doing it right and would love some advise from anyone with experience of doing it with a similar age. How long did it take until you saw results. All advise welcomed. Thanks
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[Me.and.my.two.boys]

What happens when you put him down then? Does he cry straight away? Does he stand up in his cot and cry? Does he have a paci or a lovie of any sort? How many times is he waking during the night and is it always at random times?

Sorry for all the questions, might just help to know do you think there might be OT involved at all? How many months is he? How much does he nap?

[DKM]

Hi, Thanks for your reply. When I put him down for the first few times (and when I say few I mean about 20 times) he just rolls over and goes to stand back up in cot. He thinks its a game initially and slowly it turns to frustrations, eventually tears and then he goes off to sleep. There were quite few tears last night though but a LOT of put-downs in order to get him to settle. He doesn't have a paci or a lovie. He occasionally snuggles into a blanket but will easily dismiss it aswell.
He slept all the way last night until 5am which was great. Then at 5am i was up with him for 2 hours. He got to a stage of wretching with the crying so i gave him some milk and eventually got him down. I think after the 1.5 hour mark I was just exhausted. He generally wakes a couple of times a night. Not at the same time each night but generally once before half 11 (quick back rub and straight back to sleep) and another from 3-5am. The later one is the difficult one. He is teething at the moment and has bad nappy rash aswell which is why i didn't want to push my luck with him too much at 5am this morning.
I also have a problem with his nappies as they leak frequently despite having tried all brands so I'm torn between giving him a quick change on the later wakeup (in his cot) as I wonder if this is what is causing his discomfort. I also occasionally give him a bit of water aswell from a sippy cup.
He is 13 months old, naps for 1.5 - 2 hrs during the day.
p.s I'm so sorry but i have no idea what OT means

[anna*]

OT is overtired.

I'm going to move this post over to Toddler Sleep because your baby is over a year old.

[anna*]

Honestly at this age I wouldn't lie him down at all. As you've seen, it's too easy to turn into a game. If he's calm and quiet you can leave the room until he cries, if he's upset then stay nearby but just reassure him with your voice.

My daughter used to wake at 5am, honestly I just fed her and put her back down so she'd sleep til 7. I'd rather do that than start the day at 5am. We weaned that feed at 18 months and by then we'd done the 2-1 nap transition and she went straight back to sleeping til 7.

[Me.and.my.two.boys]

How does he settle for his naps? Do you have a wind down routine that helps him to know it's bedtime and calm him before putting him in his cot?

Can you post your routine? maybe he is over/under tired at bedtime and that's why he's struggling?

Posting at the same time as Anna - when my LO wakes up between 4-6 I also just let him have some milk and he goes back to sleep. It's the lesser of two evils and it is gradually happening less and less so he's actually weaning it himself.

About the nappy - I would be inclined to do a quick change when he wakes the 2nd time to avoid him waking again wet. I use cloth nappies so don't really get many leaks but I can imagine the leaks get pretty tedious!

[DKM]

Hi, The naps are so easy, we go upstairs, nappy change, close all doors and curtains together. I say same thing again and again and he starts to bury his head in my shoulder. Generally a little water and he's really dozy, into cot and asleep. This can happen at night time aswell but sometimes he just springs back up in the cot with a new lease of life.
I have left him in the cot standing for a time and he's just grumpy not crying. It always ends the same way, he falls over, bangs his head off the side of the cot and starts to roar.
I would prefer to stay with him initially to get a good sleeping habit and to encourage him to lie down and go sleepies.
Can I ask, when your toddler wakes in the early hours, do you give them the bottle in the cot or will you take them out for a feed? I can generally settle my little guy quite easily with a bottle and a cuddle but the reason I'm starting the PUPD is to encourage him now to sleep through. Especially in the early hours when i know he's not hungry or wet etc. Also do you wake your toddler in the morning or will you leave them until they wake naturally. My little guy will make up the time he has lost in the night and extend out in the morning. I wonder is this contributing to the night waking and should i maybe set an alarm and not allow him to sleep longer than 8am.
His routine is generally as follows:
8:00 rise, breakfast
9:00 bottle (maybe small snack before nap)
12:00 nap
13:30 - 14:00 wake soon followed with lunch
15:00 half bottle
18:00 dinner
19:00 Bottle
19:30 Bed

Bedtime routine consists of a PJ change, nappy change, brush teeth. Close all the doors and curtains, get place nice and dark. I also have no TV on downstairs or major activity from 6pm.
Finish last bottle and if he's tired enough he'll nod off pretty soon after. When he pops back up in the cot there is generally 45 mins of PUPD.

Also we do a number of playgroups and swimming which he seems to enjoy and he naps fantastic after them, it generally doesn't make a difference in the night time waking if he is out and about for the day or hibernating at home with me.

[Me.and.my.two.boys]

When you say he springs back up with a new lease of life, is that as soon as you put him down or does he sleep first? At 13mo my LO also wouldn't settle if I left him standing either, now he does but it took time. If C wakes before 4 I can usually settle him either just by placing my hand on his back or by taking him out for a quick cuddle and he usually goes back to sleep. Usually after 4 he wouldn't settle that easily and I would give him a bottle and he will go straight back to sleep. I don't like the idea of feeding him during the night at this age (16mo) but it doesn't happen that often now so he's gradually weaned himself.  C is quite high sleep needs and he will sleep late if I let him but if he sleeps late then there isn't enough time in the day for his A times and nap so I've started waking him at 8am. Sometimes this makes him grumpy and he's a bit 'off' in the morning but it means he has his normal nap and then bedtime at the same time. I know what you mean about the play groups - C goes down for his nap as soon as we get home from toddlers and playgroups

I'm no expert but I would probably try and push his morning A time a little so that his second A time isn't so long before bed? Very slightly and gradually. Also, does he wake himself after 1.5-2 hours? I know there's not much you can do if he wakes early but aiming for 2hr is what I'm doing.

[DKM]

When I say he springs back to life its as soon as he's put down after a couple of minutes. It doesn't happen everytime but I just remember thinking that i'll leave the room now shortly and then he'll start to roll over and get up. I think I might set an alarm for 8am now going forward to encourage the same routine each day. When did your LO start to wean himself off the early morning feed. My lo is similar in that I can settle him quite easily before 4am.
How did you get the point where you can now leave him standing in the cot? Did you do the PUPD at any stage with your LO.

I'm unsure as to the amount of naps he should be taking daily as there is so much conflicting advise out there. I'm thinking now that maybe 1.5 hours is enough and that i'll go into his room and open the curtains to encourage him to wake up. Maybe I should leave him for the 2 hours.

[anna*]

Most babies need more than 2hrs once they first go to one nap. Some do 2.5-3 hrs

[Me.and.my.two.boys]

C can sleep for 3+ hours for his nap but I'm capping at 2hrs now (at nearly 17mo) so that I can preserve the early bt. I wouldn't cap at 1.5 - that will probably lead to OT.

I think ideally your day would look like this but you would need to push the first A gradually rather than just change it?
A - 8am
S - 12.30 - 2.30/3
BT - 7/7.30

Im no expert so I may be wrong but if your doing 1 nap that seems right to me? Maybe Anna can check?

C has gradually been reducing the early morning feed - at 16mo he probably needs it once a week. At 13mo he was probably still having it 3/4 times per week. His sleep has improved quite a lot over these last few months. I never really got on with PU/PD as it seemed to be too stimulating for him. When he wouldn't settle I sat next to his cot - I never lifted him out. If he stood up I lay him down and placed my hand on his back, sometimes I shhh'd if he was really upset. Quite a firm pressure on him (not holding him down) usually stopped him getting back up and he rolled around a bit and then settled - this seemed to decrease until I can just put him down and leave - sometimes he cries a little but stops within 30 second and he rarely stands up anymore.

How did he settle tonight?

[DKM]

Hi, Major improvements since starting the PUPD. My LO slept through the night Friday and Saturday, the first time... since I can remember. He slept till 5am this morning which I did quick nappy change, half bottle of milk and then little back rub back to sleep. I'm just hoping that this will keep up and I'm determined to stick to the routine with all night wakings. I feel so rested after the weekend which is such a nice change... ... thanks for your help. Its fantastic that only 2-3 nights of PUPD has actually made a difference.

[Gobolinosmum]

Hi! So glad it's going well for you, I clicked on your post as it looked so similar to mine I wondered for a minute how my old post from a year ago had popped up again! Just to say keep it up, the rewards are great and you're over the hardest bit! We did PUPD with our little man at 14 months as he'd never slept through and I was still BFing him at night. I got loads of advice on here at the time. Although he got the hang of it within a few nights i'd say it took him a couple of weeks to really feel at home with the new routine. Since then he's been a great sleeper and loved his cot, plus after any bout of teething or illness (he often ends up in our bed at those times) we've been able to get back on track really fast using the same routine. He's two now and we've just made the move to his big-boy bed. I was terrified it would be traumatic for him and us but thanks to his well established sleep routine he was really happy and swapped beds and rooms like a dream.

So keep at it, it's worth every ounce of effort you've put in and sooo worth it when you eventually see them begin to enjoy their bed and sleep time! I have friends who did cry-it-out whose toddlers still cry themselves to sleep some nights, whereas little fella always goes down happy and seeing him happy is the best feeling in the world!

[DKM]

Hi 'Gobolinosmum'
Thanks for your post, since I last messaged on here our sleeping has reverted back to wakings every 3-4 hours. I'm so tired at the moment and really don't know what else I could be doing. I was doing the PUPD and after a few nights he did sleep successfully through but I now wonder was this because he was coming down with a cold and was just a little bit wiped.
He is currently waking 1-2 times before 4am and when I go into him he is sitting up and distressed. I lay him down just tell him its sleepy time and he's back asleep in 5 minutes. After 4am he will wake once and is impossible to get back to sleep (maybe up for about 1hr most times). I end up giving him a half bottle as its just so impossible to get him sleepy. He is wide awake (no crying really). He constantly gets up which I just lay him down again telling him its sleepy time.
He naps now for 2-2.5 hours during the day and goes to bed for 7:30pm. He has a great wind-down routine. When he wakes during the night there is very little chat, maybe my hand on his arm/hand and no eye contact.
I really don't know what else to be doing here and its so frustrating when I thought I was making progress and now I'm back to square one. Can I ask if you LO take a bottle going to bed?
Thanks.D

[Gobolinosmum]

Sorry you're having bad nights again I'm no expert as we've only got the one kiddy (until next week's little arrival!) but how long has this bad patch been going on for and how long was he sleeping through before that? Did the sleep training work initially? Could there be something else at play like teeth? When we first did the pu/pd we had several weeks of false starts with teeth and colds before finally being able to see some progress. He's two now and still gets up in the night with teeth/colds. He usually ends up in our bed on these occasions (shock horror!) as he always wakes up v distressed and I'm too tired to sit up in his room for hours. When we initially did the pu/pd though I didn't cave in and bring him in with us. It seems we can afford to relax the rules just occasionally now he's more settled in his sleep patterns. When he's well though, the sleep training works great. I think at that age, it takes a few weeks to really forget their old habits and can easily slip back into them when not feeling 100%.

As to bottles, Our little man hasn't had milk at night since we weened him at 14months, he's just not interested in cows milk as a drink but I think we're quite unusual in that. All our friend's little ones still have a cup of milk before bed, even some of the three yr olds. I think so long as he's not falling asleep over his bedtime milk it's fine, or at least if he does then wake him up a bit before putting him in bed so he's still learning how to self settle.

Hopefully one of the moderators will answer your questions soon and better than I can. Hope you get back to good sleep soon!xxx