At what stage would you give up trying to get LO to sleep in the 3hrs?

[Honeymonster]

Ok so I've calmed down slightly since my previous tired rant and had a couple of days of just trying to relax and not focus so much on trying to get my 6week old to sleep through the day (after she's decided to give up on daytime napping)

It's been driving me slightly insane so I just had a few days chilling with her and not being too upset if she doesn't sleep.. However after spending these days observing her in a more relaxed fashion I'm convinced she'll be a much happier little girl if we can conquer this daytime naps issue as she ends up spending the whole afternoon in a sleepy haze not fully awake or asleep and by evening she's really upset.

So I had a talk with OH and we agreed to really give EASY a try for a couple of weeks and focus on extending her naps and trying to really implement a routine!

So today went relatively well with first two naps over 1.5 hrs (we went in and put a hand on her coming up to the 45 min mark. 3rd nap she wasn't settling at all (may have overstepped it ever so slightly) taking her out and doing pat shhh when she's upset seems to just aggitate her just as much and she'll scream just as much whether we hold, rock walk etc.  so we've been using the paci when she's really crying which calms her instantly but this third nap she woke back up after 30mins then cried every time the paci fell out.. Managed to keep her calm and in the cot sooking away until next feed by putting paci back in but she didn't go into a proper sleep. Should we have not used the paci and let her have a cry while we pat she
Or should we have got her back up again and not kept trying? I kind of thought her quietly sooking the paci in the cot is better than up and being stimulated?
We got her back up for next feed and tried to settle back down and she slept for 15 mins then wide awake again!!

Oh and she's breast fed and textbook/spirited... Moving more towards spirited the older she gets!

Any advice appreciated! Xx

[creations]

Sounds like you have instant success with those two naps!
Could you post the EAS times exactly as they were for that day please?  In this format:
WU 7.00
E 7.00
A 1hr
S 8.00 - 9.30
E 10.00
...etc. Include a note on when you did the wake to sleep and when she wouldn't settle.

If you are want to approach this full on with the sleep training then you can keep her in the bedroom until the end of nap time. You need to sooth her, pick up if she is crying even if she doesn't appear to settle any better.  At this age you don't really want her to lose too many calories through crying for a long time so although you 'can' stay in the bedroom resettling right up to the end of nap time I would suggest trying for 30 - 45 mins only.  Also keep in mind she might be hungry sooner than her 3hrs - a baby who is not asleep is using up more calories so may need feeding sooner, a baby who has cried a lot will have used up a lot of calories. Don't be afraid to feed early in these circumstances, a few early feeds will not turn her into a snacker. You may also need to reduce the next A by a few mins if there has been a short or no nap.

[Honeymonster]

Thanks for the reply, we have noticed in the evenings if she's taken a long time to settle we need to feed again.

Ok so after only 1.5hrs of naps yesterday and a poorer than normal night today mission EASY (1st day saying in and 100%focused went like this:

E 6.15 (she doesn't usually wake until 7.30 but had been a bad night and had her night feed earlier than usual- maybe should have treated this as a night weakening but just thought we'd start the day and see how things went)
A 6.35- nappy change and some cuddles with dad
S 7.10- on my chest.. Then moved to bed next to me (could have moved to cot but we quite often have a nap in bed first thing once dad for to work as find she'll sleep longer then start the day on a positive note. 8.00 cuddled tight when she started to wake and she went back to sleep

E 9.05
A
E 9.40- was really hungry again and took another big feed not just comfort suckling
S 10.15-started wind down at 9.50 put in cot at 10, (from 11-11.25 sat holing her arms with hand on chest- she opened eyes once or twice then drifted off) had a couple of little moans but didn't cry properly then went to sleep with us holding her arms (we don't swaddle as she fights out of them and likes to sleep with her arms above her head once sleeping always has.

E 13.20- maybe should have woken earlier? But since she had such little sleep the previous day and had had two big feeds I thought she needed it so just left her,
A 13.40
S 15.00- had in cot by 14.30 she was already a bit jerky as seemed to go right from awake to jerky arms with no zone out in between like she usually does. Cried and then took paci
    Awake at 15.35, kept giving paci an she spent the next amount of time taking it dozing off and waking up crying every time she spat it out.

E. 16.15 got her up and fed but she didn't take much
A she was knackered so just tried settling her back down quite quick but she wouldn't settle(oh was doing this while I had to nip out so not quite sure how consistent the teqnique was as he denned to have list track by the time I got in at 17.10
S 17.46 finally slept with me walking shying and patting
   Woke at 18.00

E 18.15 wasn't very hungry
A read a book and started nighttime. Wind down
E 19.00-
A cuddled in until really sleepy and changed
S 19.45, put in cot about 19.30 and held arms and swithched lights off, she settled much better than she has been! And now I'm sitting hoping that's her for the night.

I should say she usually sleeps from 8-7.30ish with one waking of 30mins-an hour around 2am. We havnt started trying a dream feed yet a to be honest I've been really happy with her nights so didn't want to mess with it just now. Often she also wakes around 5/6 as she needs a poo and struggles but she goes back to sleep without a feed usually. Last couple of nights have been bed closer to 9pm as she's been so ot. Plus she's been harder to put back down (used to always go down herself in night wakenings but recently has needed arms held.

I'm pretty pleased given this is our first fully focused attempt, it's certainly much better than our last couple of days! Any advice/comments greatly appreciated.

[Honeymonster]

Oh and also since she managed a good bedtime close to my 7.30 -aim tonight, should I wake her up tomo at 7.30am to start the day or just keep trying for EAS pattern and not worry too much about times?

[creations]

I think if you really want to get a routine established and sort out the sleepy haze of the afternoon I would suggest you set morning wake up and cap naps at a max of 2hrs to maintain the feed routine and not have her sleep for 3hrs+ in one nap.
The 6.30am WU on the EASY you gave, I would prob have treated as a NW and fed her in a dim room, hush voice and got her back to bed and started the day when you usually do OR got her up fully and done a full A time. As it was her A time was very short and the day hasn't really started if you see what I mean.  So one or the other would be preferable whilst you get a routine going.

It could be that after such a long nap she is not tired enough to sleep well in the afternoon so although it looks like she needs that sleep for a long nap it disrupts the routine for the rest of the day and lead to difficult BTs.  Capping naps now can lead to a more regular and predictable routine for the longer term.

hth