Author Topic: Issues with short naps and bedtime struggles  (Read 3311 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Serena_12

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 25
  • Location:
Issues with short naps and bedtime struggles
« on: June 02, 2014, 01:36:00 am »
My questions are about nap time, night wakings, and EASY schedule. I hope it's ok to post them all  :)

My son is 4 months old (18 weeks). I had some breast milk supply issues that took about 8 weeks to get over but now I am exclusively breastfeeding. Our sleeping struggles have been happening for about 5 weeks now.  Our typical EASY schedule  goes something like this:

7:30 am:    Wake up
   Breast feed
   Play (Jolly Jumper, playmat, singning, etc)
9:00 am:    Nap time- I try to catch his earliest sleep signals, but he still cries for 20-30 minutes while I try and settle him before finally falling asleep
9:30am:    He finally falls asleep
10:00am:    He wakes up, try to resettle with breastfeeding (sometimes works)
10:30am:   He gets up from nap, weather he fell asleep again or not- usually he does not so total nap time is 30 minutes.

Repeat these 3 steps until around 5:30pm

5:30pm   Start bedtime routine (breastfeed, bath, read a book, put in swaddle bag). His arms are free outside of the swaddle bag as he's started rolling over onto his stomach, so we don't want him trapped facedow)

6:00pm    As soon as we put him in the swaddle bag he starts to cry. We know he's associated it with bedtime because as soon as it's on he starts to cry inconsolably. He'll typically cry for about 30 minutes or so and then something that we try finally settles him down.

6:40pm    Once he's asleep at bedtime he only sleeps a maximum of 40 minutes before he wakes up and starts crying again. Recently he's been crying for 1.5-2 hours after his first sleep before he'll go back down again

8:40pm    He finally falls asleep again, but he'll only sleep for 3 hours max before getting up to feed.

11:30pm   He wakes up for a feed, usually falls back asleep without much fussing. From this point till morning he does stints of about 1-1.5 hours of sleep before waking up and I breastfeed him back to sleep. He usually only takes a couple of sucks before falling asleep again though.

4:00am   Recently he's started really waking up at 4:00am and crying inconsolably. It has been taking 1.5-2 hours to get him back to sleep when he does this.

7:30am   After a night of fitful night of sleeping he wakes up ready to play, meanwhile I feel like I've gotten a total of 3 hours of sleep all night and am exhausted.

His crib is in the same room as ours and we have blackout curtains so it's pretty dark in there. When we put him down to sleep we've been putting him down drowsy but awake, but he starts crying  almost instantly. After 5 minutes we'll start trying to settle him with a pacifier, and a fluffy teddy that he likes to have rubbed on his head (at least he used to, now it doesn't seem to work as easily as it once did).

At bedtime, we'll go in every 5 minutes or so for a 1 minute to settle him. More often than not he is still crying after this 1 minute so we leave the room and let him cry for 10 more minutes before going in again, then 15, then 20. After about 30 minutes of this we'll usually give up and lie down in bed cuddling him and I'll breastfeed him to sleep. Some nights breastfeeding him to sleep still doesn't work and it takes 2 hours before he'll finally fall asleep.

It's been extremely hard to follow a 3 hour EASY schedule, since he only naps for 30 minutes, and often need to nurse to sleep. So I guess my questions are:
How can I get on a better EASY schedule?  How can I get him to nap easier, even though I'm catching his earliest sleep signals? How can I get him to sleep longer than 30 mins, and not wake up after that sleep cycle? How can I make bedtime easier, even though we've had a firm routine since he was 8 weeks old? How can I extend the time between his night feedings? Obviously he isn't hungry if he only nurses for a few seconds.

Thank you for any advice- I am beyond exhausted!

Offline Haribo2012

  • Toddler Sleep
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 75
  • Posts: 4924
  • Location: England
Re: Issues with short naps and bedtime struggles
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2014, 05:51:59 am »
Hi sounds like its a tough time for you right now.
At BW we don't support any kind of CIO technique please have a read of this link and if you wish to consider a different type of sleep training we can happily help Kara & Alexandra's Story

Your first nap sounds like it starts off UT 2 hours is prob about right A time for 4.5 month old so your LO could be fighting nap then getting OT from all the fighting giving you a short nap, maybe try putting down for nap 15 mins later and see what happens. This is a funny age for sleep as there growth spurts, developmental leaps etc going on.

Does your LO have any reflux?
Zoe


Offline Serena_12

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 25
  • Location:
Re: Issues with short naps and bedtime struggles
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2014, 05:59:08 am »
I definitely don't want to do CIO, it's just that sometimes he will cry regardless of what we do. We've only tried CIO a couple times. Usually we rock, bounce, walk, sing, cuddle, hum, etc. I'm totally open to any other strategy that works- I hate when he cries at all!! As far as reflux- I had him on meds for it until a few days ago (my Dr thought he had outgrown the symptoms and didn't need meds anymore).
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 06:11:52 am by Serena_12 »

Offline Haribo2012

  • Toddler Sleep
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 75
  • Posts: 4924
  • Location: England
Re: Issues with short naps and bedtime struggles
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2014, 06:20:04 am »
That's good, sorry it sounded like you were leaving your LO to cry, but if you are with LO assuring all ok that's great.
30 min naps are often discomfort and that could what's causing frequent waking, I'll get someone with reflux experience to cast their eyes over your post. In the meantime could you post your day in EAS format ie:
WU
Eat
Nap
WU
Eat
Nap
Eat
WU
BT etc

This way it's easier to look at your day for you. Shush pat is a gentle sleep training method if you've not seen it here's the link
Shush-pat - How to


I'll be back later x
Zoe


Offline Martini~

  • Birth Clubs
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 48
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 3009
  • Location:
Re: Issues with short naps and bedtime struggles
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2014, 07:42:46 am »
My idea just when looking at your schedules (maybe totally incorrect!) is that he is UT when you put him down. Both for naps (as Haribo said 2-2:30 would be more common here) and for BT (you put him down after 10,5h day - not a long one). My son also cries histerically when I put him down too early as saying: nooo, I don't want to sleep! Moreover my DS sleepy cues are really difficult to read:)). It's often boredom:). I am looking for his sleepy cues but when I know it's time for a nap to know if it should be 1:50 or 2:10 (he is 3,5mo and has long awake time).

HTH!
~Marta

Offline dache

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 22
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 1565
  • Location: Macedonia
Re: Issues with short naps and bedtime struggles
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2014, 08:44:02 am »
I too thought you do CIO, it was this made me think that your are doing the controlled crying method
At bedtime, we'll go in every 5 minutes or so for a 1 minute to settle him. More often than not he is still crying after this 1 minute so we leave the room and let him cry for 10 more minutes before going in again, then 15, then 20.
It sounds like are having a hard time, sorry ((((hungs)))). Looking at things,maybe he is UT for the first nap and then as the day goes on he is OT because he didnt had enough rest.If you think he is showing signs of tiredness in the morning why not prolong the wind down routine a little while at first,so that he is not UT.
I`d first check that everything is ok with the baby. Reflux? Teething?
Also if you did left him to CIO even once you have to remedy that.



Offline ZacsMumme

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 425
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 23962
  • You complete me
  • Location: NZ
    • Tomi & Roo Boutique
Re: Issues with short naps and bedtime struggles
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2014, 08:52:20 am »
Hi there hon,

I'm a mum to two boys who have/had silent reflux and in my experience and from seeing a lot of other mums with reflux babies they tend to outgrow it closer to 1 yr old, or once sitting/solids are established, or in our case much later :P

Colic often subsides within the first 3-4 months but not always but I personally found 3-6 months the worst for my kids reflux because of a number of things. They have a huge growth spurt, they become more mobile, moving around on their tummies etc. teething starts and they wake up a lot more ie more alert.

I am a little confused as to what your dr meant re symptoms were gone. The meds would have been given to control the symptoms/discomfort so once the pain is eased then you know the meds are working. This doesn't mean reflux has gone on its own. It means the meds are working.

Can I ask what meds your LO was on and how long he was on them? What does your heart tell you? O you feel he is in pain. How is he feeding? - is he back arching, crying when put on his back or tummy, coughing or choking?

(Hugs)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 08:56:47 am by ZacsMumme »
***Sara***
https://www.facebook.com/tomiandroo


DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Serena_12

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 25
  • Location:
Re: Issues with short naps and bedtime struggles
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2014, 13:55:33 pm »
Thanks for the replies! :) I will try prolonging the first A time and see if that helps him go to sleep easier. If he still takes a 20 or 30 min nap, should I shorten the next A time, or still make it 2 hours?

Honestly it's hard to post a schedule, since it varies a lot every day. DS wakes up anywhere from 6:30-8:00 (depending on when his last night feed was). I know I should try to get him up at the same time every day, but if he just ate at, say, 6:20, I don't feel it's fair to wake him up at 7:00.  Do you think I should anyways, and see if this helps regulate his schedule? Or should I let him get a good stretch of sleep in before waking him? Also, if I nurse him down for a nap, it kinda throws off the next E time- so it's hard to stick to EAS.

As far as the controlled crying (going in every 5, 10, 15 mins), honestly we tried that last night and maybe one other time ever (on advice from a friend who tried it). I hate it, and that's why I'm looking for other suggestions. And for the shh/pat, I always try that first, but it doesn't seem to calm him. Stroking his cheek and humming to him works a bit better, but won't calm him for long. Backrubs also work briefly.

Re: the acid reflux: A different Dr (not my family Dr) prescribed ranitidine (Zantac) when LO was about 4 or 5 weeks old. At the time he was waking screaming, didn't like laying down, and vomited quite a bit. The meds seemed to help with these symptoms. Then I went to my Dr just about 2 weeks  ago to ask about increasing the meds, to see if it would help DS sleep better. My Dr said he wasn't convinced LO had reflux, but we increased the meds for one week. By the time I went back there hadn't been any change, so he had us wean right off the meds (been off for 3 days now). I don't really see any symptoms returning or worsening, so I guess this is why the Dr didn't think he actually had reflux. LO is pretty content (even laying on playmat) until I lay him down for a nap. He kicks and sometimes flails his arms, but doesn't arch his back (anymore, he used to when very young).
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 14:02:09 pm by Serena_12 »

Offline Serena_12

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 25
  • Location:
Re: Issues with short naps and bedtime struggles
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2014, 01:48:43 am »
Here is our schedule for the last 3 days:

W/U 8:00
Nap 9:30-10:00
Nap 12:00- 12:28
Nap 2:35-3:10
Nap 5:10-5:25
Bedtime 7:40 (after crying for 1 hour 15 mins)
Up at 8:30, cried for 1.5 hours
Up at 11:00 for feed


W/U 7:10
Nap 9:00- 10:20
Nap 12:40-2:00
Nap 4:20-4:50
Bedtime 7:00 (after crying for 1 hour)
Up at 10:20 for feed


W/U 7:30
Nap 9:00- 9:40
Nap 11:55- 1:00
Nap 4:00-4:30
Bedtime 6:20 (after crying for 20 mins)
Up at 7:00, cried for 15 mins, slept till 8:20
Fed and fell asleep at 8:50
Up at 10:00 for feed

« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 01:51:17 am by Serena_12 »

Offline ZacsMumme

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 425
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 23962
  • You complete me
  • Location: NZ
    • Tomi & Roo Boutique
Re: Issues with short naps and bedtime struggles
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2014, 08:54:24 am »
Have you done the BW baby personality quiz? I'm wondering if you have a touchy wee LO? - they often get overwhelmed by the end of the day and OS by life in general when very small. Naps are often a struggle. My first was touchy and we needed blackouts, white noise, gentle ST, lots of soothing and the 'right' A time to settle.

At 4 mths the avge A is close to 2 hrs so I'd be tempted to push the first A to 1 hr 45 then try to APOP back to sleep at the 30/40 min mark. I used to sneak in just before Z would stir and he jolted so I had to help him through the transition with pressure on his side (she side slept) you can do this across the body though.
***Sara***
https://www.facebook.com/tomiandroo


DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Haribo2012

  • Toddler Sleep
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 75
  • Posts: 4924
  • Location: England
Re: Issues with short naps and bedtime struggles
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2014, 13:10:25 pm »
I've just remembered I used to sneak into my DS room around 30 min mark and hold pressure on joints to extend nap! It worked a lot of the time x
Zoe


Offline Serena_12

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 25
  • Location:
Re: Issues with short naps and bedtime struggles
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2014, 06:00:50 am »
Any suggestions for when he is up every 1-1.5 hours in the night? :-\
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 06:03:46 am by Serena_12 »

Offline ZacsMumme

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 425
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 23962
  • You complete me
  • Location: NZ
    • Tomi & Roo Boutique
Re: Issues with short naps and bedtime struggles
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2014, 07:48:05 am »
Sounds like pain...any teeth coming or has he just started solids?
***Sara***
https://www.facebook.com/tomiandroo


DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Serena_12

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 25
  • Location:
Re: Issues with short naps and bedtime struggles
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2014, 10:05:39 am »
He hasn't started any solids yet. It could be teething- he started almost 2 months ago (no teeth yet though). I've tried Tylenol a few times in the night, or teething gel, and it didn't seem to help at all :(. Should I be feeding him every time he's up? Or trying to resettle?

Offline ZacsMumme

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 425
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 23962
  • You complete me
  • Location: NZ
    • Tomi & Roo Boutique
Re: Issues with short naps and bedtime struggles
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2014, 02:21:14 am »
If he is bang on 4 mths or so it could be the 4 mth growth spurt or 4 mth sleep regression....usually lasts up to a week. :-\ how long has the wakings been this frequent?
***Sara***
https://www.facebook.com/tomiandroo


DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.