9 months old nap problem after illness

[Alisa masik]

hi
i have a 9 month old after 5 days of illness - waking up in the middle of the night and naps not according to schedule. that now- 4 days after he feels ok' he has nap problems- he screams a lot before going to sleep about - 25-30 min on and off. i m going in to calm down about every 7 min, but it doesnt seem to help at all.

our  schedule:
wakes at 6 am.
nap: 8-9       (now it is 9-10)
nap at 12:30 - 1.30-2   ( sometimes only 40 min)
nap 4:30-5:20
 sleep :8:15 pm

tried to take the 4:30 nap down but he is very tired till the evening and cranky.
before the illness i would put him down in his bed ' he would fuss, a bit cry for a 10 min and went to sleep by his own.

would appreciate your help very much
alisa

[Kellyjs]

Hi Alisa,

Sorry your post has yet to get a reply. Is he feeling better now?

Many LO 's have dropped the third nap by 5/6mo so I'm not surprised he's refusing it. I can see why you're offering one with those short naps though!

I think your A times are a little short. If he's feeling better would you like to see if he'll handle some increase in A time? An average for this age is around 3 to 3.5hrs or so. Especially before that second nap. Looks like he's only doing 2.5hrs is that right?

I would extend the A time slowly adding 15mins every 3 days. This will give him to the chance to adjust without getting OT. What do you think?

[Alisa masik]

thank u'
well i m trying now to get the 2 naps . so :
wake up at 6 am
nap : 9:30-10:15
np: 1:30-3

sleep : 8

but i think he is very tired in the afternoon because of the dropping of the third nap. but i cant really put him down for a nap at 4:30-5 as i used to cause it been only 1.30 since he last nap.


so what should i do?

[Kellyjs]

8pm will be far too late I'm afraid. I'd aim for a 12hr day, so BT at 6pm.

[Alisa masik]

if  i put him down to BD  earlier then 8' he wakes up at 5:30 and earlier....
so what should i do?

[Kellyjs]

I really would try the 6pm BT for a few days to see if he settles into it. With those new naps and the change up in routine you need to give him chance to sleep. Less than 10hrs at night isn't great for a LO, that's probably why he's acting so cranky after missing that 4.30pm nap you had before. Once you shift everything to that 2 nap routine, hopefully he'll settle into a proper 11/12 hr night.

I would try it for at least a week and see if it works. If not, we can look at moving your whole day forwards but that would mean a later wu time in the morning too to keep with the 11/12hr night.

P.s if you put him down that late after waking up from the nap at 3, I think you can guarantee an OT wu at 5.30am because the A time to bed is so long. Shortened nights are a classic sign of OT.

This link might help. Typical Amounts of Day and Night Sleep

[Alisa masik]

i tried to put him down earlier again at 7:30 and wakes up at 5:30 instead of 6, he is going backward for the 10 hours,,,,   its been 3 nights like that. today i will put him down 30 min earlier and hopefully he wont get up at 5... 

his day yesterday eas:
woke up : 5:30
nap: 9:30-10:15

nap : 14:00 -14:40
sleep 7:45 pm.

today woke up at 5:30 again....

[Kellyjs]

I think that last A was too long hun. 5hrs is just far too much. Lo's do that when they're on one nap. I would aim for around 3hrs especially after a short nap. I think that's why you're getting the EW.

Those naps do seem like they're UT though which is strange as you've upped his A time quite significantly. Any teething going on that you can see?

[Alisa masik]

i know the last A is long but if we take the third nap as i did' that what happends, what else can i do with it?
 we now trying to go to sleep at 7:15' so he wakes at 3 from his last nap   2-3.
teething- he almost always has teething going on' and now also.
thank u

[Alisa masik]

Still sleeping no more than an hour during the 2 naps.  Waking up at 5:30 am.  Going to sleep at 7pm.    Can I do something to extend the naps or the waking in the morning?

[Kellyjs]

That's a really long day on only 1hr of naps. Can you post your current easy for me to have a look at?

[Haribo2012]

Hi totally agree with Kelly, it's a long day! You want to try and stick to a 13 hour day max but less if naps are bad. When we dropped 3rd nap at 7 months (way too late) we did a few 5.30 BT and DS amazed me with 12.5 hour night here and there.
The thing with EBT is although you may still get an EW a 6pm-5.30am night is more restful than 7.30-6am

Are you giving any meds before naps for teeth, 1 hour was always discomfort for us?

Also if you get a short nap try cutting next A down by 15/20 mins as a long A on a short nap with give you another OT nap (hope that makes sense)x

[Alisa masik]

hi all'
our easy now:
wake up at :5:20-6 
nap :9-10  (9-9:25)
nap 2:00-2:40 (sometimes till 3:00)
sleep : 7:15

no medicine is given during the day.
very rarely he will nap hour and a half. im not able to understand why sometimes he sleep that long.i dont see ant pattern.

thank you
alisa

[Kellyjs]

I do think some OT has crept in Alisa. It probably from the significant jump in A coupled with the extremely long day.

I think what we need to do it correct this OT firstly. It will mean some EBT for a few nights to see if he can catch up. Then we can look at shifting everything later if that's what you'd prefer.

How about you try this for a few days...

Wu 5.20-6
Nap 8.30/9 depending on when he woke up. Don't worry if this nap is short.
Nap 3hrs 45mins after wu from first nap. do w2s at 30 mins. I will post a link about this at the end. Hope for a 1.5hr nap.
BT 6

As you can see from the above we're trying to keep the day to around 12hrs to catch him up on sleep. This is important especially if that second nap ends up being short as well. You might only need to follow this a for a week to catch him up and correct the OT then we can look at moving out the day a little to suit.

Wrt the w2s I think the A time is suitable for the second nap especially after a short nap. Here I think we need to concentrate on this  nap and try and get a decent one in. You will need to go in at the 30 mins or so point and very gently stroke his cheek or put a hand on his shoulder to rouse him ever so slightly so you hear his breathing change. Try not to wake him completely. This will hopefully reset him and it'll hopefully help him into the next sleep cycle. It takes a bit or trial and error to get it right, some people ssh/pat through the transition but mine never liked that. I had to back out ever so quietly and leave her to it. I would do this every day for that week and see if it works.

What do you think? I know there's a lot of information here, but it think a good week of EBT will really help him out. If you could log how he falls asleep at BT for me that'll be helpful. Also how the w2s for the second nap is going.

How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)

[Martini~]

Just a point from my side as I see you are very much afraid of him waking up at 4-5am. I wouldn't be so worried as LOs don't usually wake after x.x times of sleep, it's rather exact timing when they wake so ie 5am. Of course it's too optimistic to think that LO may sleep 14hbut with a situation like yours EBT may be a solution.

Moreover when he wakes at 4am you have more chance to get him back to sleep than if he wakes at 5-6am.