NWs - 18 month sleep regression or routine tweak needed?

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Not sure what's going on with my 18 month old at the moment...  We're getting loads of chatty NWs - mostly only lasting 10 minutes or so, but of course, then I'm awake...  Some nights it's just one or two, some it's more.  I've tried letting him nap longer in case he's OT (I cap his nap cos he's LSN), but then we get EWs, so I've gone back to capping for now. The nws are mostly between 2 and 6am, but he often has one around 11ish too.

His routine is generally:

WU: 6.15 - 6.45am
Nap: 1.15/1.30 for 45 minutes
BT: 7.15, asleep by 7.30 usually.

I have already tried a few things.... I was letting him sleep 1hr in the day, and he was waking happy from naps and in the morning but then occasionally EW.  Last time I let him nap longer than that, he was EW the next day and then refusing his nap    With a 45 minute nap he doesn't EW (he'll resettle himself if he wakes before 6), but the last few days has been grumpy when I've woken him from his nap.  He's fine after some food and once he's properly woken though.  Generally his mood is good, right up to bedtime.

He only has 4 molars to come through and they probably are due some time in the next month or two, so they could be moving.  He occasionally has his finger in his mouth but not lots.

What do you think?  Is it a routine thing, or just teething / a sleep regression which I need to ride out? If so, when do I accept it's not going away?!

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I'd say ride it out...I doubt capping the nap will be of benefit and of course you already tried the opposite! Is he doing anything new development wise like talking more? Perhaps the nw's are just down to development. Oh and there are usually gs on the half birthdays too!

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Yeah, he is starting to talk more and developmental stuff does affect his sleep. He's also trying to climb a lot more this week, though these night wakings have been going on for a while so don't think they're related to just climbing.

Having said all that, he actually didn't wake at all last night, and slept 11hrs 20 minutes.  He only had a 38 / 40 minute nap in the car yesterday - I don't know if that's a coincidence or not. Often at home he's had nearer 50 minutes before he's actually awake, so perhaps I'll be more strict about sticking to 45 minutes max.  Otherwise I'll just leave him be and keep an eye on how nights go on the days we're out and he sleeps less.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Oh, also, his room was extra hot last night so I took his pyjama bottoms off just before I put him down. It could have been that he was cooler last night and slept better cos of that.  I've noticed him sleep better when he's cooler before.  I'll obviously try that again tonight and see if it works with a 45 minute nap at home

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

E sleeps better when she is cooler too, fx that those two things do the trick!

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Hmmm... They haven't really. The only thing is that I've put him down for his nap slightly earlier (1.15 rather than 1.30) and I don't need to cap any more cos he's shortened his nap to 40-45 minutes now.  So I don't need to worry about capping any more at least! We are getting fewer nws on a shorter nap (generally only one now), but WU time is creeping earlier again.  I fear this is the start of the 1-0....

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Shhh...I don't want to hear that 1-0 phrase in reference to an 18 month old! I fear we will be there soon enough! In saying that though would you be able to do a no nap or 10-15 min nap day to see what happens? Sheesh what does one do with a no nap kid under 2.5? (DD1 dropped hers at that age).

[LovelyLilyandJack]

I don't even know! Lily was about 2.5 by the time all naps had gone, but they were far and few between at 2 and a quarter.  That was ok, but I reckon jack will be mostly done by the time he's 2. He's run a few months ahead of lily in A times for ages now.

Tbh, I'm a bit in denial about him needing less of a nap.  I think I do need to try it though cos yesterday he only napped 40 minutes and accidentally had a late-ish night and it resulted in half an hour more ONS than normal and he's woken up much happier.  In a way I wish he was refusing his nap sometimes cos then I could just take his lead! Maybe that's only just around the corner.... 40 minute naps are normally the last stand before nap refusal here.

Ok. I will try a short nap next time we're out and see what happens.  I can't bear to wake him at home in his cot after such a short nap. I don't know why! I'll let you know....

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Well that didn't go as planned. As it happened, he only napped for 15 minutes at nursery on Tuesday, but he did it on a day where he woke at 5.30am, and I couldn't get him in bed before 7.15, so way way too long a day on virtually no nap! We've not had great nights since... He's got a cough at the moment though, so even though he did a normal day yesterday he still had several nws last night. So I'm not sure what's going on atm.

One thing I'm struggling with a bit is if he's OT, how do I get him over it a the moment? We tried doing an early nap yesterday (12.45 instead of 1.15), and he just did 40 minutes again.  It might have been too early,  as he's only doing 40 minutes at 1.15, rather than me having to cap if he naps at 1.30. So I think his normal nap time is already a bit early. But any later and he's sleeping too close to bedtime, especially if I let him nap longer than 45 minutes or an hour.  Does that make sense?! Just not sure what to do with him and these nws / ews have been going on about 2 months now

Do you think I should try a shorter nap again, but on a day when WU time has been ok and I can do ebt? Or assume he's OT from Tuesday and try and catch him up first?

ETA: He EW on Wednesday morning, crying, but I did manage to resettle him and he slept another hour. He was happy all day after that, so it could be that extra hours sleep sorted him after Tuesday?

Also to say, I spoke to nursery about his naps and they said they think he's starting to drop them cos he never seems tired. The day he only slept 15 minutes he was fine all day and only fell apart at home at about 6.30, by which time he'd had a 14 hour day and should have already been in bed.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I can't quote easily on my phone so hopefully I don't miss the things I want to comment on...

Totally makes sense about sleeping close to bedtime - we cannot do that either, naps have to end by 2:00/2:30 at the latest for an 8 pm bedtime here.

I think if daycare is right about him being fine on a power nap then he is definitely headed to one nap and if he will do an ebt to tack on I would be tempted to try either cutting tye nap back or alternating in nnd's. Would he do quiet time at least? DD2 loved her quiet time right up until she was 5.5, gave us both a break.

If he is getting a cold though it might be the nw's are just down to that, might be worth waiting a few days to see how he is.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

This boy! He woke yesterday at 5.30am after me letting him have a slightly longer nap (he woke after 50 minutes) and slightly ebt in case he was OT at all.  He then refused to nap at home at all yesterday, nearly fell asleep in the buggy at 3, had a very ebt by his standards (6.15, asleep by 6.30) and woke at 5am this morning He wouldn't resettle, even after an hour of WIWO, so I think he was just done for the night.  I remember from the 2-1 that he was tired by 6.30 but wouldn't reliably tack on. Really, the earliest I can do BT is 7, but with 5 - 5.30am WUs that's a very long day.

Not sure what to do today at all.  He's going to have a long day anyway, and if I let him nap too long we'll get an EW tomorrow.  If I cap his nap at 30 minutes or so, he'll have a very long day without much sleep.  Urgh.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

What did you end up doing? Ugh I think I will be capping to 45 min soon. She really takes her ot in stride though (but tbh a 60 min nap doez not leave her ot - she was raring to go to the park at 6 pm last night after a nap from 1-2 pm). How does he deal with ot? Is a really low key day possible as he adjusts to a very short or no nap?

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Jack does fine with OT too, generally. We ended up doing a 40 minute car nap (we were going to cap but he woke by himself anyway) and normal bedtime and he had a really good night. I was surprised, cos he was definitely tired yesterday, but not overly. He so seldom shows any tired signs it's just really obvious when he's just a bit tired I think.  He woke at 5.50 this morning, which is pretty normal for him, and quite good for an EW phase.

I capped his nap at 30 minutes today and we had an hour in the park this afternoon and he was asleep within 5 minutes at bedtime We haven't had that since all the nws started. So assuming tonight is ok, I'll try a 30 minute nap for a few days I think, before I cap further or do purposeful NNDs. Though it looks like he's chucking a few in anyway.

I didn't find dropping from 60 to 45 minutes made much difference for long I'm afraid.... But I was quite late to actively cap cos at around 12 - 15 months he was only napping around 45 minutes a day anyway mostly. A lot of that was teething related (think that's going on now as well btw), but we got good nights on it. So yeah, I enjoyed longer naps for a bit and then was quite late to actively cap. E is even more lsn than jack though.  Every time I doubt he can really survive on such little sleep, I think of her

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Lol...it is so crazy to me how she thrives on it. Sheesh soon I will need more sleep than she does! So far an hour is okay if she gets ample outdoor time. Hope J has another great night!

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Thanks.  I think he did.... No nws at all, but up at 5.30. That was a 10 and a quarter hour night.  So more settled, but still quite short.  He's in nursery for the next two days so I think I'll ask them to cap at 30 minutes too, and see if he builds up some tiredness over a few days. What do you think?

I find time outdoors helps here too. I find it hard to make the time for it sometimes though - it's so much easier to strap him into the buggy and push him around than it is to let him walk,  but he generally does sleep better with some exercise. Just thought actually,  the better night last night could be down to the hour in the park as much as anything else