Stunted growth due to cutting NF?

[ideazec]

Dear all,

I would like to seek some advise please.

I've read both of Tracy's books (BW solves.. And secrets of...).

From what I gather, correct me if I'm wrong.. Is that we should tank up baby during daytime and cut out NF.

I've cut out NF for my bb since he was around 10 weeks till he's now coming to 5 mths.
Reason is being that when he wakes at 3am, we pop a pacifier and he can sleep till morning 6.30am-7am. He always wakes around 3 something since birth!

But my baby has dropped in his height percentile and is pretty short as compared to his birth height, though his weight gain however, is good.

Tonight he woke again at 3.30am and was unwilling to go down, I fed him to test if he's really hungry. He guzzled down 140ml of feed and soon went to sleep with a little fussing.

My questions are:-

1) Is it right to cut out NF? Could it have stunted his height growth?

2) should I give him the NF back and undo all the progress on cutting out NF ?

Can anyone please advise me? I'm torn ...

[ideazec]

I was very happy that we've managed to cut out NF but his slow height growth is creating doubts in me. I'm wondering if he needs more feed to grow.

Also, due to us popping the paci when he wakes at night... He's addicted to paci now.

So we are not entirely sure if it's hunger or paci issue.

My thoughts are that if he can be satisfied with a paci, should mean he isn't truly hungry right?

Please share your thoughts... I would really appreciate it.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I agree that if the paci is enought for him to sleep until morning he is not hungry. I think a lot of babies would guzzle a 3 am bottle regardless and perhaps just be less hungry on wake up. He might wake hungry during a growth spurt though or wake because of teeth or development too...there are just so many variables!

[Katet]

Height at birth & height at 2yo really have little in common. My DS2 was born very tall & still at 9yo is very tall, but a friend had a tall baby at the same time, by the time they were both walking DS2 was taller & now DS2 is still much taller. From about 6mo both boys have kept fairly consistent in their growth along the chart. My friend brought it up with her GP about how her DS had dropped from top of the charts to just above 50% on the charts in the first year & the GP said "that's genetics for you" 

The fact he is putting on weight is the main thing & also height growth tends to go in spurts, so in a month's time his height might have changed quite a lot.

The fact he goes 3+ hours from waking at 3am says he's not looking for a feed.

[ideazec]

I agree that if the paci is enought for him to sleep until morning he is not hungry. I think a lot of babies would guzzle a 3 am bottle regardless and perhaps just be less hungry on wake up. He might wake hungry during a growth spurt though or wake because of teeth or development too...there are just so many variables!

Thanks for your reply! That's what I thought, however it's mainly the slow growth in height that's causing me to worry if I'm depriving him of his needed nutrients to grow.

His night wakes used to be only at 3ish. Now it's irregular like he falls asleep at 8ish .. Sometimes 9ish... He would wake at 10ish... 2 or 3 ish... And 6ish. This has gone on for weeks.

I have no idea if its a sleep prop association or hunger (irregular wakings).

Any guides would be great..

Confused mummy.

[ideazec]

Height at birth & height at 2yo really have little in common. My DS2 was born very tall & still at 9yo is very tall, but a friend had a tall baby at the same time, by the time they were both walking DS2 was taller & now DS2 is still much taller. From about 6mo both boys have kept fairly consistent in their growth along the chart. My friend brought it up with her GP about how her DS had dropped from top of the charts to just above 50% on the charts in the first year & the GP said "that's genetics for you" 

The fact he is putting on weight is the main thing & also height growth tends to go in spurts, so in a month's time his height might have changed quite a lot.

The fact he goes 3+ hours from waking at 3am says he's not looking for a feed.

That's what the PD said.. "Genetics". However, both me and my hubs are not short. So it really didn't seem to make sense to us then.

I googled about height stunted growth and it pointed to malnutrition, that's what got me worried.

As I read the forums here, some mommies said that in Tracy's book.. No where stated that we are supposed to cut out NF! And that's its normal to feed the baby once or twice at night.

So what exactly is Tracy's guide? Am I misinterpreting the book?

Yes my baby can have the last dream feed at 11 and be satisfied with a pacifier when he wakes up at night. He will last till morning 7am.

So did you mean this is a clear indicator that he doesn't need he feed?

[Katet]

That's what the PD said.. "Genetics". However, both me and my hubs are not short. So it really didn't seem to make sense to us then.

I googled about height stunted growth and it pointed to malnutrition, that's what got me worried.

Honestly if he is putting on weight, he can't be malnourished & if he was 5yo & he hadn't grown for a year then yes I'd say you have something to worry about, but at 5mo, I think you might just be worrying a little too much about nothing.  I'd have to say if it makes you feel better give him the night feed, but I very much doubt a baby who is gaining weight will be malnourished & have stunted growth, they don't grow in a linear or even fashion (even at 11yo) they have growth spurts where it feels like they grew an inch overnight & then periods where you think "gee you've got chubby, must be getting ready to grow again"

If you are really worried I'd talk to the Dr, but honestly I do think (from experience with my 2) that if they are hungry a pacifier will only tied them over for 20-40mins, if it is 3-4 hours then they really are coping with the amount of food they are getting in 24hours.


OK I just went & looked at both my boys "health books" DS2 was more consistent but this is DS1 (weight was always up at 90%) These are rounded to the closest line
Birth 97% for height
3mo 75% for height
5mo 60% for height (not yet rolling)
9mo 75% for height
10mo 50% for height (not yet crawling)
11mo 75% for height
14mo 50% for height (not yet walking)
18mo 75% for height
2.5yo 75% for height
5yo 90% for height
8yo 90% for height
10yo 97% for height
11yo 97%for height.

So basically it took DS1 until 10yo to be back at the same spot on the chart as he was born at & almost before every movement milestone he got "chubby" & short by comparison to his average.

Even DS2 who is tall dipped between off the chart (he was born at 58.5cm/23inches) at birth down to 90% here & there.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Tbh I have not read the books in a very long time and have passed mine along so cannot read up on that. I agree with Kate though, mine always have the chubby/short vs tall/lean stages. DD3 dropped her height ratio but just grew so it is probably back up. You would be due a gs at about 6 months as well so he may pop up again then. To me stunted growth would mean more drastic of a drop.

[ideazec]

That's what the PD said.. "Genetics". However, both me and my hubs are not short. So it really didn't seem to make sense to us then.

I googled about height stunted growth and it pointed to malnutrition, that's what got me worried.

Honestly if he is putting on weight, he can't be malnourished & if he was 5yo & he hadn't grown for a year then yes I'd say you have something to worry about, but at 5mo, I think you might just be worrying a little too much about nothing.  I'd have to say if it makes you feel better give him the night feed, but I very much doubt a baby who is gaining weight will be malnourished & have stunted growth, they don't grow in a linear or even fashion (even at 11yo) they have growth spurts where it feels like they grew an inch overnight & then periods where you think "gee you've got chubby, must be getting ready to grow again"

If you are really worried I'd talk to the Dr, but honestly I do think (from experience with my 2) that if they are hungry a pacifier will only tied them over for 20-40mins, if it is 3-4 hours then they really are coping with the amount of food they are getting in 24hours.


OK I just went & looked at both my boys "health books" DS2 was more consistent but this is DS1 (weight was always up at 90%) These are rounded to the closest line
Birth 97% for height
3mo 75% for height
5mo 60% for height (not yet rolling)
9mo 75% for height
10mo 50% for height (not yet crawling)
11mo 75% for height
14mo 50% for height (not yet walking)
18mo 75% for height
2.5yo 75% for height
5yo 90% for height
8yo 90% for height
10yo 97% for height
11yo 97%for height.

So basically it took DS1 until 10yo to be back at the same spot on the chart as he was born at & almost before every movement milestone he got "chubby" & short by comparison to his average.

Even DS2 who is tall dipped between off the chart (he was born at 58.5cm/23inches) at birth down to 90% here & there.

Hi Kate!

Thank you so much for such insightful information.
It's so interesting that the kiddo would "slow down" in height before learning a new movement skill.

Do you mean that when you notice your kids looking chubby, shortly after they would have a height growth spurt?

I always thought its my eyes playing tricks when overnight baby seems to have packed up pounds at his cheeks like a chipmunk.

I'll grab his health book and post his stats in a bit.

 

[ideazec]

Tbh I have not read the books in a very long time and have passed mine along so cannot read up on that. I agree with Kate though, mine always have the chubby/short vs tall/lean stages. DD3 dropped her height ratio but just grew so it is probably back up. You would be due a gs at about 6 months as well so he may pop up again then. To me stunted growth would mean more drastic of a drop.

Hi Heidi,

Thanks a lot for sharing.

When your kiddos went through a GS, was it so plain easy to see that a GS is going on?
I went pass mth 3 without noticing anything different, which a GS was supposedly going to happen.

I think my baby's height dropped 2 bars. Let me grab the health book and double check on that.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I was bf so was easy to tell as there was an uptick in feeds when they needed to boost my supply. As they gotnolder gs were marked by a voracious appetite and sometimes extra sleep. After 1 year old they seem to hit at birthdays and half birthdays for us. Even ky older DD's look noticeably chubby up to a height spurt.

[ideazec]

I was bf so was easy to tell as there was an uptick in feeds when they needed to boost my supply. As they gotnolder gs were marked by a voracious appetite and sometimes extra sleep. After 1 year old they seem to hit at birthdays and half birthdays for us. Even ky older DD's look noticeably chubby up to a height spurt.

Do you give your kiddos water, besides bm? My mil does give some water and he sometimes guzzles it down.
Would the intake of water mask the GS?

I'm a first time mom so I'm really lacking knowledge in all these.

[ideazec]

Here's my boy's growth chart.

Height:
Birth - 10%
1 mo- 75%
3 mo+ - 25%
4 mo+ - 25%

Weight:
Birth - 25%
1 mo- 50%
3 mo+ - 75%
4 mo+ - 75%

Does the drop in height look normal to you guys?

Kate:

By the way, my boy has yet flipped or crawled. So no major movement skills yet.

[michaeljacknnugg]

In the UK they go entirely by weight, height is not measured at all for at least the first couple of years of a child's Kidd. And I am assuming there is a good reason for that!

If he is gaining weight nicely then I'd think that you have nothing to worry about. The pacifier will only settle him if he's not truly hungry and just wants something to suck. If he's hungry he's a lot more likely to wake again a short while later.

If he's sleeping well at night, I say enjoy it! There will be plenty of times when he won't sleep well, so get all the sleep you can while you have the chance. He will wake you if he needs you!

Posted with you - his weight gain looks fantastic.

[ideazec]

In the UK they go entirely by weight, height is not measured at all for at least the first couple of years of a child's Kidd. And I am assuming there is a good reason for that!

If he is gaining weight nicely then I'd think that you have nothing to worry about. The pacifier will only settle him if he's not truly hungry and just wants something to suck. If he's hungry he's a lot more likely to wake again a short while later.

If he's sleeping well at night, I say enjoy it! There will be plenty of times when he won't sleep well, so get all the sleep you can while you have the chance. He will wake you if he needs you!

Posted with you - his weight gain looks fantastic.

Hi MJ,

Thanks a lot for sharing! It's interesting that height isn't taken into account in the UK.
This is really reassuring.

Btw... We aren't having good night sleeps yet. He wakes multiple times at night.
Could be a habit and/or sleep association with paci.

I read somewhere that says: if baby wakes at night, and falls asleep immediately with a paci ... Is a clear indication that he's addicted to it.
What do you think? How true is this?


Since birth he always wakes at 3ish.. (Am hours). Now at 4 months, he can wake up 3-4 times at night.
I tried WTS but have failed several times. He always wakes up crying when I try WTS, even though I was very gentle ( rubbing his head etc to wake him up slightly)

Yes I'm really proud that with TBF, his weight gain is good.
As before, my in laws kept commenting that bm does not satisfy the baby like formula milk.


 

[michaeljacknnugg]

I don't have any experience with the pacifier sorry - my DS completely rejected it. I don't think it's a problem at this age though, even if he is dependent on it? I'm sure others will chip in here.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Well bm is definitely easier to digest...but for sure satisfying!! Here I think water is recommended for over 6 months and not before. Having a lot of water would fill a lo up and then they won't have room for the milk they need. Are you bf or ff (or both?).

With the nw's does he wake quite soon after a paci replug? He may be hungry with a growth spurt.

[Katet]

Honestly being a Researcher who has worked with Statistics for over 20years... looking at the growth of a 5mo, is like saying "the team are going to win the Premiership" after the 2nd round of games. There isn't a statistically relevant enough pool of data in a child under 2yo.

I do notice even in my children now that they get chubbier & then leaner & they grow out of clothes

I do think you are absolutely causing yourself too much worry. As a PP said the UK (& I know it is the same in Australia) weight is the only real indicator of growth until they are actually "weight baring"

There are SO SO many things to worry about with a child, if they are gaining weight & having plenty of wet & soiled nappies & they are developing then really I'd not be concerned about stunted growth. Height will come later.

My DS1 is 11yo & he is tall, but then DH & I are tall, That said DH was always short until he was 15yo & grew nearly a foot in a year. We know some 14yo twins, their Dad is tall, the Mum average, they have been quite shortish until now & suddenly one has shot up & is considerably taller than his twin & they are identical twins & that is normal.

[ideazec]

I don't have any experience with the pacifier sorry - my DS completely rejected it. I don't think it's a problem at this age though, even if he is dependent on it? I'm sure others will chip in here.

Hi MJ,

That's great! No pacifier means one less of a problem to fix hahahah..

I read that weaning it off is easier before 5 months. The older they get, the tougher to wean. I can get baby to lie on his bed for naps and bedtime, but once he's tired and ready for sleep, he'd start whining and would escalate to crying.

All these happens with his eyes closed.

At this point, if I pop the paci, he's off to lala land in a min.

I guess we at lacking in this final soothing skill to transition to sleep.

[ideazec]

Well bm is definitely easier to digest...but for sure satisfying!! Here I think water is recommended for over 6 months and not before. Having a lot of water would fill a lo up and then they won't have room for the milk they need. Are you bf or ff (or both?).

With the nw's does he wake quite soon after a paci replug? He may be hungry with a growth spurt.

Hi Heidi,

I'm on total bf but I'm pumping to feed. Little guy doesn't know how to latch anymore.

Well usually when we put him to bed at night, say if he sleeps at 830, he would wake at 930 or earlier. If we replug him, he'd sleep till the df at 11.
After which, it's an irregular wake between 12-2am (if this happens).
But 90% of the time he would wake at 3ish, then wake at 630 or so.

I'm guessing the 3am waking is out habit. I've tried WTS but failing terribly, always ends up waking him.

TBH, I'm quite vexed about his sleep issues.

Have you used PU/PD with success?

[ideazec]

Honestly being a Researcher who has worked with Statistics for over 20years... looking at the growth of a 5mo, is like saying "the team are going to win the Premiership" after the 2nd round of games. There isn't a statistically relevant enough pool of data in a child under 2yo.

I do notice even in my children now that they get chubbier & then leaner & they grow out of clothes

I do think you are absolutely causing yourself too much worry. As a PP said the UK (& I know it is the same in Australia) weight is the only real indicator of growth until they are actually "weight baring"

There are SO SO many things to worry about with a child, if they are gaining weight & having plenty of wet & soiled nappies & they are developing then really I'd not be concerned about stunted growth. Height will come later.

My DS1 is 11yo & he is tall, but then DH & I are tall, That said DH was always short until he was 15yo & grew nearly a foot in a year. We know some 14yo twins, their Dad is tall, the Mum average, they have been quite shortish until now & suddenly one has shot up & is considerably taller than his twin & they are identical twins & that is normal.

Hi Kate,

Thanks a lot. This really helps to ease my worries.

Being a FTM has so much to learn! Of cos EASY has helped me so much already.
I am now looking into the sleep department.

It seems to be a puzzle now as I'm always asking myself ... If he's waking for the paci or he woke and the paci helped him back to sleep. Lol...

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I have never used pu/pd! Mine were all so spiriter I knew it would not be effective. Have you tried teaching him to replug the paci in the day? We did that and put about 10 soothers in the crib (glow in dark ones) so she could self serve. Once we did that her nw's were down to hunger/teeth/developmental stuff.

What does his day look like in EAS format? Might be needing a tweak there.

[Katet]

After DS1, we weaned DS2 off a Paci at 5mo, I put a few items I thought he might use for soothing in the cot (DS1 had a Paci & a small piece of smooth cloth) & DS2 evidently had the need to suck because he soothed by sucking the arms of the soft toy bear (ended up buying 8 from Ikea for him) & even though he could easily find them in the night, he still wasn't a great sleeper & it took until he was 4yo for me to work out part of it was his low sleep needs... at 9yo he sleeps less than 9 hours a night.  So while taking the Paci away may help I think sometimes it is the need to suck that is part of the issue, so it doesn't solve it... I sucked my fingers as a baby & my DH his thumb & neither of us stopped until 5+yo & so I'm guessing that played a part in my boys wanting to suck.

 

I can get baby to lie on his bed for naps and bedtime, but once he's tired and ready for sleep, he'd start whining and would escalate to crying.

How long from when you put him in does he start whining? It's been a while, but it sounds like he has trouble with that last step in relaxing, I did this with the boys when they were older & standing up was a problem & it helped them settle, but may work with a 5mo. I'd stroke  just above their head from their hair down to nose, not actually touching, but enough to get them to shut their eyes as my hand slowly moved over the eye area & helped them get more relaxed.

[Mama2Athena]

Hi- my DS was BF until 5 months old and started out tiny (25% for both weight and height) but then shot up to 75% for both by 1 month old.  Doctor joked that I had good milk, LOL.  Anyway, around 4/5 months, his height gradually tapered off to 50%, then 25% while still maintaining 75% for weight.  I was worried but the doctor assured me it's genetics - makes sense since both my DH and I are roughly 25% for height.  My DS is now 8 yo and is still in the 25% for height, but around 50% for weight (stocky build).

[ideazec]

I have never used pu/pd! Mine were all so spiriter I knew it would not be effective. Have you tried teaching him to replug the paci in the day? We did that and put about 10 soothers in the crib (glow in dark ones) so she could self serve. Once we did that her nw's were down to hunger/teeth/developmental stuff.

What does his day look like in EAS format? Might be needing a tweak there.

Thanks for helping to take a look at his schedule:

E - 7am ( but he usually wakes between 630-7)
S - 8.20~ 8.45 ( he falls asleep around this time)
E - 10.15
S - 11.45 ~ 12pm
E - 1.15
S - 2.30 ~ 2.45
E - 4.15
S - 5. 30 ~ 5.45
E - 7.15
S - 8.30 ~ 9 ( he usually wakes 9.30 or 10. Give him a paci,he sleeps again)
DF - 10~11pm

Please note that all naps he will wake up anytime from 30 mins to 45 min into the nap.
Night wakings are irregular timings like sometimes 2am, sometimes 3am. Minimum
Waking per night is 1, maximum can sometimes go to 4 times.


We are in the midst of transitioning to the 4hr EASY.
I read that for bf baby it's tough to do a 4 hr EASY?

Thanks for guiding me along ...

[ideazec]

After DS1, we weaned DS2 off a Paci at 5mo, I put a few items I thought he might use for soothing in the cot (DS1 had a Paci & a small piece of smooth cloth) & DS2 evidently had the need to suck because he soothed by sucking the arms of the soft toy bear (ended up buying 8 from Ikea for him) & even though he could easily find them in the night, he still wasn't a great sleeper & it took until he was 4yo for me to work out part of it was his low sleep needs... at 9yo he sleeps less than 9 hours a night.  So while taking the Paci away may help I think sometimes it is the need to suck that is part of the issue, so it doesn't solve it... I sucked my fingers as a baby & my DH his thumb & neither of us stopped until 5+yo & so I'm guessing that played a part in my boys wanting to suck.

 

I can get baby to lie on his bed for naps and bedtime, but once he's tired and ready for sleep, he'd start whining and would escalate to crying.

How long from when you put him in does he start whining? It's been a while, but it sounds like he has trouble with that last step in relaxing, I did this with the boys when they were older & standing up was a problem & it helped them settle, but may work with a 5mo. I'd stroke  just above their head from their hair down to nose, not actually touching, but enough to get them to shut their eyes as my hand slowly moved over the eye area & helped them get more relaxed.

Hi Kate,

Thanks for sharing! Does the need to suck start from birth or does it change along the months?
As my baby didn't really need to suck in his earlier months but at 5 months now, he puts everything in his mouth and sucks/ licks them.

When we put him down his bed, he starts whining/ crying when he's tired. That depends if he's tired to start with, so it varies. But I would think on average it takes 10-20min.

[ideazec]

Hi- my DS was BF until 5 months old and started out tiny (25% for both weight and height) but then shot up to 75% for both by 1 month old.  Doctor joked that I had good milk, LOL.  Anyway, around 4/5 months, his height gradually tapered off to 50%, then 25% while still maintaining 75% for weight.  I was worried but the doctor assured me it's genetics - makes sense since both my DH and I are roughly 25% for height.  My DS is now 8 yo and is still in the 25% for height, but around 50% for weight (stocky build).

Hi Mama,

Thanks for sharing. How do you get the percentile heights for adults?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I wonder if the new interest in sucking/licking might be down to teething starting?

As for routine, by this age most babies are on 2 naps and a catnap and heading towards dropping the catnap at 6 months or so. The following link shows A times by age, so the range for 5 months to 6 months can be up to 2.5/3 hrs. He could probably use a bump in A time which would hopefully get a bit longer naps.

Head banging while trying to fall asleep in crib

[ideazec]

I wonder if the new interest in sucking/licking might be down to teething starting?

As for routine, by this age most babies are on 2 naps and a catnap and heading towards dropping the catnap at 6 months or so. The following link shows A times by age, so the range for 5 months to 6 months can be up to 2.5/3 hrs. He could probably use a bump in A time which would hopefully get a bit longer naps.

Head banging while trying to fall asleep in crib

Hi Heidi,

I have no idea! I haven't seen any teeth popping out but he's drooling, chewing, licking so much.
I'm a FTM so I can only make guesses... Not sure what to expect.

The link you posted was about head banging though lol.. Didn't seem to see the A times info.

These past few days was horrible. He could skip his 4pm catnap and last till 9 or 10pm before he falls asleep. No matter what we do, he just doesn't want to sleep!
I don't understand why... 

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Lol...must have picked the wrong link off my clipboard!

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

Usually the bottom teeth come first - sometimes you can see the white lines in the gums.

[Katet]

Hi Kate,

Thanks for sharing! Does the need to suck start from birth or does it change along the months?
As my baby didn't really need to suck in his earlier months but at 5 months now, he puts everything in his mouth and sucks/ licks them.

When we put him down his bed, he starts whining/ crying when he's tired. That depends if he's tired to start with, so it varies. But I would think on average it takes 10-20min.

I'd say that's all developmental, babies start to drool & saliva increase & they use their mouth more as that is their first "sensory" development. Everything goes in the mouth to "learn" & there is the teething element. Part of the mouth stuff will also be him getting ready for food.

The changes in how he goes off to sleep are also probably developmental he will be taking in more from his surroundings & might need longer transitional stage from activity to sleep. I found at that age it was when I started to spend time reading stories to my boys.

The odd day of skipping a nap is not uncommon & developmental stuff will impact sleep.

[ideazec]

Lol...must have picked the wrong link off my clipboard!

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

Usually the bottom teeth come first - sometimes you can see the white lines in the gums.

Hi Heidi,

Thanks a lot! That's really helpful

Lol the head banging response to my question was pretty funny though... I had a good laugh

Do you have any insight on the transition from 3hr to 4hr?
I'm on the 9th day, which is the 3.5hr and some timings seem really close together (the 4.30 feed is followed by a 6pm feed) while the last feed at 6ish to 11 dream feed seems too long.

Baby sleeps at 7pm and wakes at 8ish and can't sleep till 10!
Today he slept at 645, woke at 7.45 (so it's past 1 sleep cycle, doesn't it mean he should have successfully transitioned into the next sleep cycle which should last 45min? )

Anyway, he couldn't sleep and we gave him a feed. He sleep soon after at 10. He could finish both feeds at 9 and 11.

Please do share any views you have about transitioning.

Do we have to extend the transition if baby fails to adhere to the new revised timing? Does it mean he needs more time to adjust?

[Mama2Athena]

Hi Mama,

Thanks for sharing. How do you get the percentile heights for adults?

[/quote]

Hi, not sure if there is an official chart for adults, but if you look at the ones for kids, it goes up to age 20.  At that age, most kids have stopped growing and that would be their final adult height.  I've compared my height to a 18-20 year old female on the charts and it's pretty much on the 25th percentile curve.  Hope that helps.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Most bf babies take longer to hit a 4 hr easy than ff babies...however I am not sure how that works with a bottle fed infant on bm! Thing is bm is more digestible so I know my kids could not do 4 hrs between feeds until we had solids in the mix and even then it was hit and miss. Plus we never had a real bang on EASY by time that way, it changed from day to day. I followed EAS pattern but never really watched the time so was fairly fluid unless I was trying to squeeze in a feed around the school run!

[Katet]

I believe that if it is BM in a bottle it is the same as BF because it is the milk. I too found that my boys really didn't ever go to a 4 hour Easy, I didn't really no BW when DS1 was that young, but always tried the Eat/play/sleep ( as I was told it when DS1 was a baby) & then when DS2 was born all I worked on was making sure the "A" came before sleep... with DS2 I worked around DS1's timetable so I never overly worried about times, I think being 2nd child it was more about kind of knowing "this too will pass" & things changed month by month so I didn't really fine tune by the clock, more just followed his cues & so some days it would be 3h & others 3.5 & others 4, others 2.5h

[ideazec]

Hi Heidi and Kate,

Thanks for your replies. How would you know if your baby can stretch to the 4hr EASY?

We are on 3.5 transition today (2nd day) and it's terrible.
This is the supposed plan:

E- 7am (woke 645, ate 7am)
S- 8.30~9.00 ( slept 810 till 10, ate 1030)
E- 1030
S- 12.00 ~1230pm (slept 12.00 but woke 12.30. Can't sleep till 1.45 Feed)
E- 1.45
S- 2.30~3.00 (slept 2.50 but woke 3.20, slept 3.45 till 4.30)
E- 4.30
A- 4.30 to 6.00 (fell asleep at 5.10, woke him up)
E- 6.00
S- 6.30~7.00 (didn't sleep till 8.10, but woke at 9.30. Keeps crying , unable to settle. Fed him, slept again at 945)
DF- 11.15pm

So he missed 2 naps, he was fine with 3.15 hr EASY.
Does this mean I should slow down the transition?

What should I do？
 


 

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Personally I would stopped going by the clock time and feed when he is showing cues as it will give you a better idea what he is ready for. That may mean a variety of timings - I remember DD2 did a descending EASY as the day went on - 3.5 hr, 3 hr, 2.5 etc because it worked for her at the time. Sometimes we did EAEAS too if A times got too long and feeds couldn't wait until after a nap.

[ideazec]

Personally I would stopped going by the clock time and feed when he is showing cues as it will give you a better idea what he is ready for. That may mean a variety of timings - I remember DD2 did a descending EASY as the day went on - 3.5 hr, 3 hr, 2.5 etc because it worked for her at the time. Sometimes we did EAEAS too if A times got too long and feeds couldn't wait until after a nap.

Hi Heidi,

Thanks again! However my baby is no longer rooting and it's hard to tell when he's really hungry.

Anytime we give him a bottle, he can finish it.
So... We rely on the clock to feed now.

We are trying to transition him to a 4hr and it's horrible!!!

He was fine at 3.15hrs, now at 3.30hrs... His sleep is all over the place. Wakes 45 mins - 1hr into his naps.. Either wanting to play or crying loudly... He's cranky... And unable to pacify him!
NW 3-4 times daily!

The whole family is wreck now!! Nobody has energy and we don't know what we should do now?
Carry on the 3.30hr till he settles in? Or move ahead to 4hrs regardless? Or move back to 3.15hrs?

Also we are now using this 3.30hr instead:-
3-4hr EASY Transition – In 5 Minute Increments

However, my family is questioning why the 5.30 feed and top up feed at 6.30 is so close..
Shouldn't it be at 9pm for 3.5hr instead?

Anyway, my baby will usually wake up at 9 or 930pm daily.

 
Please can anyone advise me on what I should do??

[Katet]

We are trying to transition him to a 4hr and it's horrible!!!

My Babies never transitioned to 4hours, with DS2 it was because I tried to have a routine that fitted around the life DS1 needed & also because of the way my children slept etc... some babies just don't.

Please can anyone advise me on what I should do??

First thing is Relax a bit. Your baby hasn't read the text book & you need to learn to trust some of your instincts. If you feel that a 9/9.30 feed will work rather than at 6.30pm top up then go with that.  The more you get worried about it not working the more likely he is to pick up the 'stress' in your body.

I'm not good at working out routines, because TBH I'm not great at clock watching to follow, so I tended to work on "if it looked like my child was hungry & it had been about 3+ hours since I'd fed, I'd feed, I'd never look at the clock & go, ok lets wait 20mins until 3.30, that just wasn't my nature, but I might think "ok you are awake & happy & not looking for food so lets wait a bit before I feed you"