Can you ST if you suspect teething + few more qns

[cath~]

H seems to be constantly teething...  I guess it takes time for the teeth to move through the gums.

I need to ST her because we have a bit of a BFing prop: She's fed back to sleep after each NW ...  And ATM there are a LOT (I often lose count  )

At BT and for naps she's not (no longer) fed to sleep, but if she gets worked up I feed her again briefly until calm, then put her down again and she actually falls asleep in the cot.  However, of course the reliance on BFing to calm her needs to be worked on too (I've got to this point using the gentle removal plan).

For the first few months she wasn't fed to sleep, but then, for various reasons, since about 6 mos (I think) I've used BFing much more to calm her and at one point was almost always feeding her completely to sleep.  (Nb even when she wasn't being fed to calm/sleep, she's always had quite a lot of NWs - she just seems to be a light sleeper).

My main issue at the moment is all the NWs as I have the impression that the main problem is that I've always fed her to resettle her at NWs.  Whereas at nap and BT I just feed to calm and then she settles herself, for NWs she's fed right back to sleep.

She has one long and one short nap now. The long nap is usually in the am but not always.

A typical day is:

WU 6.45
Nap 10.15-11.30/11.45
Nap 3.15-3.55 (capped to preserve BT)
BT 7.00 - asleep 7.15

She's just got over a horrible cold and i'd really like to break the bf-sleep association now.  However, as I said, she does always seem to be teething but I can't wait until she has all 20 teeth to st! Has anyone else felt this and st-d nonetheless?  She settles quite calmly for naps and BT so I think it's not too bad (the teething). It's just all the NWs!

She's always been a very light sleeper and rouses easily.

If I were to start st - do you think I should just go cold turkey and stop feeding to calm at naps and BT. Also, what about NWs? She's never not fed at night so I'm pretty sure she couldn't go through a whole night without a feed - but at what point/time/NW should I feed her and when should I settle without feeding?

Oh, we also co-sleep from around 2-4am onwards, after the umpteenth NW, which probably isn't helping but at least we get some rest.  Co-sleeping still doesn't stop the NWs though but at least they're less tiresome to deal with.  Should I stop the co-sleeping too or can I take it more gradually? I'm not sure I have the energy ATM to address all NWs at once iyswim...

Thanks for getting this far through my ramble.  I think I've got all the Important points here but let me know if I've missed anything important!


PS sorry if this is the wrong board - I wasn't sure whether to post here or NWs or props... Or PUPD..

[jessmum46]

Hugs hun, you must be really tired now. 

Teething - I would personally give meds (if you're comfortable doing so) if LO is in the really painful stage of teething, usually about 3-4 days max - any longer is probably not *that* bad if you see what I mean - and then get on with ST.....reason being there are so many things in the first year that can be an 'excuse' that you kind of have to bite the bullet somewhere. 

I'm probably a rip the plaster off kind of girl, but I would cold turkey stop the feeding to calm and the co-sleeping all at once.  I think trying to wean nursing to sleep whilst continuing to co-sleep is probably fighting a losing battle if I'm honest, it's just too easy when they are right there yk? 

Re feeds at night....I think 1 or 2 would be reasonable at this age, so you may want to set two times you will feed e.g. 10/11pm and 5am and resettle without a feed at other times, or you could go for the 4h rule ie if she wakes less than 4h from her last feed, you resettle all the way to sleep even if it takes you past feed time.  Then feed next waking.  If it's been 4h then just feed right away. 

Is DH on board to help?  Were you thinking PUPD?

[cath~]

Thanks Katherine

That's what I was hoping to hear i think!

There's always "something" and I just want to get on with it now she's over this cold.  The teething isn't *that* bad ATM so I think I'll start tonight.

I think I'll go for the 4hr rule re NFs. That seems easier to me than set times..

Yes, DH is on board but during the week I think it'll be mostly me cos of course he has to work.

Yes, was gonna go for PUPD, but try mostly to settle her in her cot with my voice. I think the pu could just work her up more.

Right, it's nearly BT.  Wish me luck!

[jessmum46]

How did it go? x

[cath~]

Thanks for asking

It went really well! I can tell it did cos I have huge boobs

BT took 40 mins for her to settle so she was asleep at 7.35

Next woke at 9.15. I thought she'd settled after 10 mins but then she started crying again and ended up taking about an hour to settle.

Next WU at 11.40 so I fed her (>4hrs since last feed).

Next WU at 4.15 so I fed her again.

She settled fine after both feeds but was kinda making odd noise / murmur after the second one. Then at 5.30 she was crying at which point I brought her into our bed.  PUPD is very noisy and with L in the room next door there's no way she'd sleep through it at that time.

Just put her down for her first nap.  Was expecting maybe 20-30 mins of PUPD but I only had to pu once and she settled in less than 3 mins I think! (Was v sleepy though when I put her down).

So gonna keep going like this for now and might have to think about the early mornings/co-sleeping in a bit.  It can't really be a noisy solution though given big sister is on the scene...

[jessmum46]

That's fantastic!! What a good start know what you mean about the 5am onwards time though, DS and DD are in adjacent rooms so I'm forever worrying about one waking the other.  White noise??

[katie80]

Sounds great, Cath!! Well done, H!

I will be in the same place (again ) next week and am planning to do something very similar. Hope it continues to go well for you!!

[cath~]

Hi Katie, I really hope it works for you next week. I am so impressed with how well H is doing. I thought she might be bit extra clingy today too but she's been super-happy.

Nap 2 today was on the go in the carrier cos I took L to the park.

But BT was great!

Took about 15 mins for her to settle. I didn't pu at all, just rolled her onto her side a few times (her sleeping position) and said shh and "it's ok". She cried/fussed a little occasionally but not much and not the mad upset crying she did last night.

Very impressed.  Will be interested to see how tonight goes ..

My boobs are feeling quite full though now. I hope they adjust to this soon!

Katherine - white noise is a thought but I'm not sure whether L would be happy with that (she's quite sensitive and I think the idea of it could upset her). Also, I think it'd have to be pretty loud...  Hmm

[katie80]

Yay! I'm sure your boobs will recover soon... I suppose you could pump a bit off to ease them before you go to bed and put it in a sippy the next day.

As for white noise... what about a box fan in the hallway? That way it wouldn't be in L's room, but might still stifle the noise. Or, maybe as H is doing so well that won't be needed!

[cath~]

H seems to be ill and/or teeth bothering her again.  She's not quite 100% anyway.

I'm still managing to put her down for naps and bt without feeding, and with just a bit of help (roll her onto side, hand on her for a bit for reassurance, some shhing, sleepy phrase) to nod off.  Also managed to resettle her like this for first nw last night. But after that the NWs get harder to resettle and even if I feed her she has trouble settling again.  As you know, I'm ill ATM too so she came into our bed around 2ish last night.

Just quick question really, Dyt it's ok to go back to a bit of BFing and co sleeping in the night at the moment, while she's having trouble re-settling even with those props, and then work on it again when h is better?

[katie80]

I think you need to do what's best for all of you. She clearly settled well when you did the bit of PUPD and I'm sure will do so again. It's a plus she's still going down for naps and BT with minimal help. While it's never fun to take a step back, life is messy and ST isn't always a cut and dry process. You need to feel well and confident for it to work.

Getting rid of NWs took more than one time with both my boys, because of teething, illness, etc. It makes it hard, but honestly my experience is that when they're well (and you're committed) and they already have some IS skills, it's not that difficult to get rid of extra NWs.

(((Hugs))), hope you both feel better soon!

[jessmum46]

Completely agree

[cath~]

Thanks guys.

We'll pick up on the NWs again when we're both better.