Early wakings due to teething?? Just have to ride it out??

[BusterB]

Ah perfect! That's great, thank you. 

[karindmor]

You know what...I nursed him right after I wrote you and he fell asleep haha! But I just let him sleep for about 45 min or so and made sure he was awake by 3.  My husband and I left town for the night, so my mother in law put him to bed later around 730, but he wasn't asleep until 8pm.  Then he woke up at 615 which is way better than 530! Just going to do the 1 nap today and lay him down around 1230 I think.  That will be a 6.25 hr A time.  You think that's too much??  And should I still medicate before the nap or see how he does?

Also, which GroClock do you have?? Is it the gro clock brand or another brand? I've heard of them on this website and definitely think that I want to try one!

[BusterB]

6hr25 does seem quite a long A time - perhaps aim for 12 and then just do an EBT if you get a short nap & can't resettle?

Personally I don't medicate for naps, I save it for bedtimes - that is totally your call though!

[karindmor]

Hi! I'm sorry to write again because I know it's been awhile! But I'm still having some trouble with early wakings I did buy a gro clock but I'm in the us and am waiting for my adapter to arrive. He is not in a toddler bed yet, I'm waiting until finals are over so I'll have more time to dedicate to it. I have also tried waiting to get him out of bed until 630, but he'll either scream bloody murder or just climb out. If he's just screaming it's hard bc I don't want to wake everyone in the house. I've been having him on the 1 nap a day schedule for weeks now and have been putting him to bed early like around 645-7 if he wakes up before 2. But if he wakes up between 2-3, I'll put him to bed between 7-8. But sometimes he still takes awhile to wind down once were in the room and he's nursing. yesterday I started doing quiet time before naps and bedtime where we don't play with toys and just read books. It worked for nap time but he was still really wound up before bedtime even after quiet time. And he's been really throwing a lot more tantrums at night which makes me thinks he's tired.
He's in a pack n play right now, and when he's upset before bed, I'm afraid that he'll jump out of his pack n play, so ill pick him up and nurse him again. I know that's probably not good but I don't know what to do about that. Any advice on that?
But he's very inconsistent about wake up times, but its never after 630. I just feel like if I try to put him to bed early, I'm still putting him to bed late bc he wants to nurse longer or whatever.
Oh!! And sometimes I'm afraid to go anywhere in the morning bc I'm afraid he'll fall asleep in the car. And I swear if he falls asleep for even 5 min it ruins his nap time!! His canines are through but the big part of the tooth has yet to push through. Do you think his teeth could still be bothering him?

[BusterB]

Grrr I just wrote a long reply and I've lost it.. and I'm short on time!

But in a nutshell, I think you could try keeping your son's day to a total of 12-12.5 hours....  This worked brilliantly for us. You might need to adjust his schedule a bit so that nap happens a bit earlier to give a long enough awake time before bed - but that should actually help reduce overtiredness anyway.

So if he wakes at 6am he would need to be ASLEEP by 6:30pm at the latest that night. I start wind down even earlier than usual & if necessary stop nursing and let him finish winding down in the crib to make sure he is asleep early. You should only need to do this whilst he catches up on the overtiredness and then shift to a later bedtime as he becomes less OT.

Do you feed to sleep? Separating feeding and sleeping a little helped us too, my son's sleep drastically improved once the feed association was gone (

I didn't know what a pack n play was (am in UK) just had to google it  but are you saying your son climbs out? It might be that if you can get him down earlier, when he is more tired than OVERtired, he won't melt down so badly and misbehave, that is the theory anyway. I'm not 100% sure how you would stop him climbing out other than just bring consistent about how you respond to him doing it, telling you want him to stay in there and replacing him without fuss if he climbs out (I would stop the extra nursing you mentioned too)

[karindmor]

Thank you so much! I will give the 12 hour day and earlier nap time a try! I tried to put him to bed early tonight too, but since he woke up from his nap at 2:15, he didn't fall asleep til 7.

I've only been nursing him to sleep for naps so he doesn't climb out. But Idont nurse to sleep at bedtime. He can fall asleep by himself. Thank God

[BusterB]

Falling asleep without nursing at bedtime is a big help!  at least that is one less thing to worry about.

How long does he generally nap? What wake times are you using? For my son, 5.5hr WT before bed got the best nights, so I always try and an our naps to finish around 5.5hrs before I want him asleep again, it took some fiddling around though.

I find if my son is a bit overtired at nap time, I have to nurse him to wind him down, so I don't think that is the worst thing personally. It was removing the bedtime feed to sleep that mattered here.

We are having sleep disruption here again (after using the 12.5hr day thing to get us on a great routine) which it looks like is either teeth related or SA as he is waking early from his naps really upset & not resettling... so have been putting him down early at bedtime to prevent OT and he has been sleeping 12 hour nights, so although we are still up at 5:45am, he isn't clocking up lots of OT and I know when this phase is over his nap will extend again and we'll push BT & wake up back out.

I really hope you find some success with it! The early waking obviously won't vanish immediately, but with any luck he will tack sleep on to his night & become less OT and you can get him to bed more easily and move things later gradually.

[karindmor]

Thanks ! I'm sorry you're dealing with sleep issues, but you definitely sound like you know what you're doing so I hope it all works out for you soon!!

That's exactly what I do for naps to wind him down is nurse bc I feel it's the only thing that works. Otherwise he thinks it's a game to be placed in his play yard and then climb out. I think he's been a little OT at nap time now that I think of it. What A times do you use for before nap time?

I do nurse before bed, but not to sleep. He is almost always awake and for some reason he doesn't think to climb out of his play yard at bed time (which I'm not complaining ). So I just do WI/WO when he's upset at night and he falls asleep on his own. maybe start puttin him down for his nap earlier bc maybe him climbing out of the play yard is a sign of OT? What do you think?

And what do you do to keep them falling asleep in the car before nap time? I try to go out early around 9 and then be driving back around 1030 so it's still far enough from nap time, but sometimes he'll nod off for 5 -10 min and then he won't be tired for nap time. Do you just do early bedtime in that case so he's not getting too much daytime sleep?

[karindmor]

Hmmm so I've been doing the early bedtime, but he's been waking earlier each day. 6, 545, and 530. I'm trying to do a nap around 1130 or twleve and he sleeps until 130 and then try to have hkm asleep around 630, although sometimes it's been 645. I don't know what to do.

[BusterB]

Rather than looking at it as just early bedtime, how long in total are your days?

I literally found that a day longer than 12.5 hours  (or ideally 12hr) caused a shorter amount of overnight sleep and earlier wake ups.

Obviously not all babies are the same though and if you have tried this and it doesn't work for you baby, then there will be other things to try I'm sure...

ETA; I meant to add sorry... do you adjust your first A time when he wakes early? I always brought our nap time forward to try and prevent OT building up early in the day...

[karindmor]

Thanks for getting back to me!  I have been trying to keep to a 12.5 hour day bc it is really hard for me to get dinner and wind down time in 12 hours.  I can try 12 hours though.  It is Thanksgiving here this week and his cousins are in town for the week so unfortunately his sleep is going to be awful.  I want him to spend time with them while they're in town, so I'm trying to figure out how to get him enough sleep.  They will only be in town for 2-3 more days though, so I'll be able to get him back to normal. 

Yesterday, I gave him 2 naps (one 10 min nap in the morning and a 2 hour nap from 1-3 so that he could stay up to see his cousins).  I started nursing him at 730 and laid him down a little before 8.  He was still awake (he's always still awake at bedtime), but he finally settled himself around 815, so that was a little later than I thought BUT, he woke up at 530.  I know, I know .  I don't do 2 naps anymore, just yesterday so he could stay awake.  What do you suggest I do while his cousins are still in town??  I want him to spend as much time with them as possible.

So is the idea behind the 12 hour day (and very early bedtime) that he'll catch up on sleep which will make him wake up later? I do see what you mean about him getting more night time sleep when he goes to bed early and still wakes up early. I know every baby is different, but how long did you have to do early bedtime before your son caught up and started sleeping later? Oh, and I was moving nap time earlier too.  I usually do naps around 12 or 1 and was giving him a nap around 1130.  Maybe I should do one earlier?? I was just worried that if I went earlier, he might be UT and not take a good nap and wake up early, like 1230 or 1.  So if he wakes up at 530or 545, I would shoot for a nap around 1130 and then he will wake up between 1 and 130.  Then I would try to have him asleep at 630.  I think that's a little later, I have just found it a challenge to deal with dinner and not rushing bedtime for him. What time do you typically do dinner when you do an early bedtime?  Does he ever wake up hungry??

I really appreciate your help with all of this!! 

[BusterB]

It is Thanksgiving here this week and his cousins are in town for the week so unfortunately his sleep is going to be awful.  I want him to spend time with them while they're in town, so I'm trying to figure out how to get him enough sleep.  They will only be in town for 2-3 more days though, so I'll be able to get him back to normal. 

Happy Thanksgiving!  If you are happy to just roll with things whilst your family are in town, just do that! I'm sure things can't get much worse 

He was still awake (he's always still awake at bedtime), but he finally settled himself around 815, so that was a little later than I thought BUT, he woke up at 530.  I know, I know

So that amount of night sleep and that exact sleep pattern is definitely overtired with my son. So I still think that lies at the heart of your sleep issues and if we can figure out how to get some proper restorative sleep for him, I think we can improve things.

So is the idea behind the 12 hour day (and very early bedtime) that he'll catch up on sleep which will make him wake up later?

Exactly right... once I started this my son started sleeping 11-12 hours a night and we slowly got rid of a lot of the overtiredness and his naps increased and then he was getting about the right amount of total sleep in 24 hours and then I could start moving the nap and bedtimes out slowly and the wake ups in the morning got later.

I do see what you mean about him getting more night time sleep when he goes to bed early and still wakes up early. I know every baby is different, but how long did you have to do early bedtime before your son caught up and started sleeping later?

It probably took 2 or 3 weeks of being really strict with the A times and total 12/12.5 hour days, leaving him in the cot in the morning until 6:30am - but then the clocks went back and we ended up back where we started and to be honest we are still struggling to get back again now as he has also been ill in the last month and now I think his teeth are playing up, although things are improving slowly.

Oh, and I was moving nap time earlier too.  I usually do naps around 12 or 1 and was giving him a nap around 1130.  Maybe I should do one earlier?? I was just worried that if I went earlier, he might be UT and not take a good nap and wake up early, like 1230 or 1.  So if he wakes up at 530or 545, I would shoot for a nap around 1130 and then he will wake up between 1 and 130.  Then I would try to have him asleep at 630.

I totally get the worry about the UT nap, my son used to be a nightmare when UT... If you are getting a really good nap at 11:30 you could try holding there. Experiment a little, you can always move it later if 11:30am or earlier becomes a disaster. At the moment my son is only napping for approx an hour but his nights are all approx 11hr30 (they were 9hr45-10hr30 maximum when he was OT, so this is a huge improvement)

I have just found it a challenge to deal with dinner and not rushing bedtime for him. What time do you typically do dinner when you do an early bedtime?  Does he ever wake up hungry??

I really appreciate your help with all of this!! 

You are very welcome - as I said before this stuff may not be the answer for your son, but I figure as long as we are trying to help him catch up on OT we are hopefully on the right track and if it doesn't work we can try something else. Have you ever tried set nap times for eg?

Since my son's naps went wonky last week and we have been doing lots of early bedtimes again, I have been doing dinner pretty early between 4-5pm and he eats pretty well, so I don't think there have been any hunger issues. He obviously then has a breastfeed before bed and this seems to last him at least 11-12 hours.

How long does your son nap by the way?

Do you have an idea what your son's ideal A time is too?

My son sleeps best on 5.5hrs, if he is well rested he can also do ok on 5hr45 but if it gets to 6hrs then things tend to fall apart.....

[karindmor]

We are having a great time!!  He is my only baby so it's really fun to see him socialize and have such a blast with his cousins!!  I will have to do serious damage control once they leave though

I have never heard of set naps, but told my husband (he's been out of town the last 2 weeks since I've started this) that we would need to put him to bed super early that way he's on board with me!!  I'm a little nervous about nap time...that is the one time I nurse him to sleep bc otherwise he jumps out of his play yard!! Ugh. I was hoping to start weaning soon and I know that's the first one I have to cut out.  Maybe I'll post something on the breastfeeding page about that! I'll try and keep naps around 1130 bc I know that time works for us.  And I'll move dinner up earlier for him too and maybe just eat after he goes to bed. I'll let you know how it goes once we start early bedtimes again!

Oh and I have no clue what his A times are.  When he was about 20 months, his schedule was like clock work: 0700-W, 12-2-nap, 730-bedtime.  If he woke up before 2, I had him in bed at 630 or 645, but any earlier didn't really work for him.  So now that he's OT and he's older, I have no clue what I'm working with.  I'm trying to watch for cues now, but they seem to be more subtle now that he's older.

[BusterB]

Ok well the other thing you could try if this all fails miserably, is capping the nap. Going totally against the catching him up train of though, it could be that he needs less day sleep in order to extend his nights... what happens if you get a short nap? Does he ever extend his nights to compensate?

[karindmor]

I have no idea!! I know he is very sensitive to naps and without them it really affects his nightime sleep and he'll either wake up in the middle of the night or have an EW. If he has too much A time before bed it's the same thing, but maybe if he takes a later nap and then I cap it, but not too early so that there's too much A time before bed. Definitely something to think about as a Plan B! Thanks!