need help to teach my 14 month old to put himself to see

[k2thelc]

My 14 month old son was sick as a baby and has never been a good sleeper, due mainly to accidental parenting, but I need help now because its getting out of control. 
I think he needs to learn how to put himself to sleep at naptime and bedtime so that he can put himself to sleep in the middle of the night also.

I was thinking pick up put down was the way to go but am now thinking maybe gradual withdrawl...but I need to know why one is a better choice. 

This is our schedule right now. 
7:45am wake up
12:30-2 nap on a good day but his naps are not consistent.  Sometimes 11-12:30 and again at 3-4 and sometimes he will just sleep for 30 mins.
7 or 730 bottle of milk and rock to sleep. He usually goes to bed well this way, but I know we should get rid of the bottle and help him learn to put himself to sleep. 

and thats when it gets crazy...
he was waking up 4 times before 11pm for a snuggle and then would wake up around 3 and end up in our bed cause we were too tired.  But its taken a turn for the worse...this is an example
woke up 11:05pm chatted until 11:18 I went into soothe him but couldnt so I left the room at 12:15 went back in at 12:22am because he was screaming.  He fooled around until 1240 and then I put him in the crib and crawled in and laid with him for a minute and he finally fell asleep but was up again at 330am and I don't even recall what I did because I was exausted and then he woke again around 430 and my husband brought him into our bed. 

Last night it was worse... please help.  We plan on starting some kind of training on Saturday evening. 

Thanks for helping me, 4 hours of sleep is not enough!!!!
Kelsey

[Buttonbobs]

Hi there and welcome

Pu/pd is really a method for smaller babies, and those who cannot stand up and down by themselves. Assuming that your 14 mo can do this, and seeing that he is not and hasn't been an independent sleeper previously, I do think gradual withdrawal is your best bet. The two methods used to sleep train toddlers that we would recommend are GW and walk in/walk out. The second of these works better for LOs who have already learned to self settle but need to get back to it after a glitch or illness of some kind.

Have you seen this link:

Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)

It helps explain the differences in the methods and why we recommend GW for you.

So that's the St bit, and you can always try to sleep train whenever you feel ready. It is worth bearing in mind that at this he there will probably be crying inveaolved because he is protesting the change from the ways you have always helped him sleep, but as long as you stay with him while he cries (or eventually reassure with your voice from outside of the room) the bond of trust between you will not be broken. If you find listening to his cries difficult (as I have always done with my DD) you could try some earplugs. They will help to take the edge off the harsh frequencies of the crying and they certainly helped me cope better.

I warn you of this as I think itms good to know that it could be a hard process for you, but as long as you are committed and consistent and don't give in, it will get better over time and we'll be here to support.

As for the routine, it does look like you are part way through dropping that CN and moving to one nap. My DD did this at a similar age. Anther useful thread to read to see how others cope with this 2-1 nap dropping phase is here:
From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)
It seems like you have been following the longer am nap shorter pm nap pattern and that for a while this has been working. Those wakings at night do seem to be in part UT (undertiredness). Chatty wakings followed by crying are often UT but with the LO becoming OT (overtired) as a result leading to lots of wakings. The lack of self settling will also make it harder for you all as he needs you to get back to sleep.

Don't worry about the accidental parenting you've done so far, there are many of us here who have used AP to get us through, and being a parent is so so tiring, when you're this tired of course taking a child into bed and all goon back to sleep is the good option in the immediate moment.

You might find pushing towards just one nap in the day consistently helps now, and perhaps ST at the same time will assist as he'll be more tired and settle more quickly than if he is UT.

If you like we could look at your EASY for a few days (if you want to post) and come up with a plan for you ST together and then we can also be here while you start, when you're ready. What do you think?

I hope that helps,
N x

[k2thelc]

Thanks for replying!
This was our EASY yesterday!

630am woke up
E 700 eat breakfast
A 7- Activity time read play at home
E 1130 lunch
S 1200 rocked to nap up at 1233 laid with him and now rocking 1245. Slept till 200
Activity time
S 5-520 fell alseep on the road which was an odd time for us to be driving and for the nap
E 600
S  700bottle and rocking
Woke up at 1015 realized by husband forgot to give b his Prevacid for acid reflux before bed. Rocked till 1040
Up again 1120-1126 moved to our bed
Slept until 7 am


Any comments are appreciated.  He slept decent through out the night because he was snuggled with us.  A night in his own bed isn't as successful!

[Buttonbobs]

You mention that he has reflux, have his meds been checked recently? I do think the problem is likely to be not being able to self settle but just worth checking that he's not uncomfortable at all.

Other than that and the unexpected cat nap, I think the routine looks ok, it's just that he's dependent on you I think really. How do you feel about the first step being sleep without rocking. You could try holding him to sleep as a very gentle first step, or you could try putting him in his cot without holding and instead use your hand on him together with reassuring words, something like "you're only going to sleep, mummy's here" so something that feels natural to you and you can repeat if he needs extra reassurance. You stay with him like this until he sleeps. Then the next step would be something a little further again and you would do this until he seems to be ok settling like this without crying and then move to the next step again.

i would probably start with nap time sleep as then by BT he'll be more tired and hopefully will settle for some sleep.

Does this sound like a plan you can manage this weekend or had you been thinking of a different first step?

[k2thelc]

I will be seeing his pediatrician on Tuesday and am going to ask about upping the dosage of medication he receives.  But I still believe we have created bad habits and need to work on him needing us so much!
I am going to talk to my husband tonight about our first steps.  Is it better to take big steps or small steps, I am guessing small steps so you can change things without him crying for hours cause I just laid him in the crib and sat beside it.  So if I start tomorrow without rocking him... What would the next step be?  Should we start giving him his bottle outside of the bedroom so he doesn't fall asleep while drinking it?

Thanks so much for your help!kelsey

[Buttonbobs]

I would go with small steps at this stage - the gradual nature is part of the process.

The bottle is a tricky one. Have you always fed him to sleep at night time? The ideal would be to get to the stage where you can give him a bottle or offer a cup of milk with his evening meal and then have a gap in which he gets ready for bed and brushes his teeth. This is better for his long term twwth hygiene anyway, but I appreciate (having been there myself) that this seems like a very scary step.

I started by offering my DD a bottle earlier in the evening and then doing our usual BT routine and brushing teeth and then offering the bottle again as I "normally" did at that time. Slowly over time she got fed up of the Bt bottle as she was full from the previous feed. Could you try something like this?

I think it would be best if you start by feedig him until drowsy and then put him down to begin with, then move to feeding him earlier and holding him until he is drowsy before putting him down. Then you can move to putting him down awake and keeping and hand on him, before putting him down and moving away, but staying in the room. Eventually you will get to putting him down and moving out of the room and staying outside the door, still using reassuring words.

Does this make sense?

[k2thelc]

Ok, we have made a plan and will be starting at nap time tomorrow.  Our only issue will be trying to keep him awake on the way home from swimming lessons at 11am.  Fingers are crossed.

[Buttonbobs]

Good luck, xxx

[k2thelc]

The first night isn't going well! It's 230 am and since falling asleep the first time he has been up 9 times. I am wondering if I should be teaching him to fall asleep in his own and not worry about the middle of the night yet? This would be easier on me of course but I want what's best for him.  I will post the entire nights fun in the am but just looking for a midnight I feel like I'll never sleep again out!

[k2thelc]

3am fail! Brought him to bed, hoping to get some sleep! Although I am upset with myself : (

[Buttonbobs]

(((Hugs))) honey, don't be upset with yourself. This will be very hard going. Unfortunately at this age I don't think you can teach him to self settle at BT and still use the AP methods during the night. It will be hard sweetie but it will get easier after the first night, I promise.

Are you feeling like you can carry on and give it another go today, starting with his nap? Or will you give it a break and try again next weekend?

You can do it!! Xxxxx

[k2thelc]

Oh man... Check out our night! Any tips would be appreciated!

Wake up 700am
E 8am breakfast
A swimming and play
E 1120 lunch
S 1140- 130 sat in chair no rocking till eyes closed 148 laid down he rolled over and went to sleep!!! It was a super almost 3 hour nap!
A outside play
E 535 supper
E 630 bottle

700 begin bedtime routine
709 bottle sitting in chair no rocking.
715 gave me 3/4 bottle back
Snuggle he is rubbing eyes
717 1st attempt to lay down
Fussed sat up stp laid back down sat up again back to chair snuggle
721 2st attempt to lay down
Fussed sat up stp laid back down sat up again whining stp. Sit up back to chair snuggle
725 laid in bed rolled over went to sleep
745 awake crying
Stb pick up sit in chair no rocking
750 laid down went to sleep walking out of room I stepped on a toy cow that mood and woke him up : )
756 attempt to lay down fuss sit up
Stp hand on back sit up fuss
758 back to chair 
804 back to sleep

849 awake crying stops as soon a I pick him up
855 laid down stp cried pick up back to chair
900  laid down stp cried pick up back to chair
904 laid down hand in back stp he stayed laying down stp whinned stp hand still on back cried sat up back to chair  906
912  laid down hand in back stp he stayed laying down stp whinned stp hand still on back cried sat up back to chair
916 laid down cried back to chair
925  laid down cried back to chair
1013 he's asleep!!! For now!
1103 awake crying
1115 back asleep
1 awake crying
110 back asleep
113 awake
130 back asleep
145 awake
157 back alseep
225 awake
246 asleep didn't even make it back to my bed
256 back asleep
300 awake brought into our bed

He still woke up once in out bed
430
615
645
745 up for the day

[k2thelc]

Need middle of the night tips!!!

[Buttonbobs]

Yes that does sound pretty awful for you lovely. I do think this is to be expected though as you change the way he's used to. Are you willing to give it another go at this point or do you need to catch up on some sleep and try again next week?

[Buttonbobs]

Is it night time now? I'm in the UK so it's early evening here. Be strong lovely, you can do it xx