Lack of calories from BF result in night wakings?? 7mo

[Mimmi]

I hope I am in the right place and someone could have a look. or maybe this should be moved to NW issues?..
I have a post in General sleep issues, but I feel these might have to do with how my baby is being fed.

DS is 7mo in few days, introduced solids sometime 5mo + week, as suggested by our doctor. She has insisted on gradual increase of veggies to 150ml - as this is a norm for a 6mo old. and then in 2 weeks add in some cereal. So I have, even though now I think - this was too early - he only last 2 weeks is showing interest in what I am eating. Anyway, after I came to this site, I have changed eating pattern - before it was all feeds BF, except lunch and dinner solids topped up with BF. I am now giving 3 smaller meals (~100ml), 1h after BF.

We struggle a lot with NW and as I was looking through other posts, I found suggestions that 3 meals at this age is too much and this could be a reason for NW.. I have always been very unsure about my supply and as a result I think I made DS into a snacker - I was feeding him every 2 h from around 3.5mo till 5 when introduced solids. 

So currently he eats from both breasts total of max 10min and always looks hungry afterwards. I should mention however he is an efficient solid food eater as well and always looks hungry after 100mil but I make a break and after few mins he would not take a bite anymore. Thus I am not sure if after BF he's really hungry or just need some time to feel full. Does that make any sense?

He falls asleep quite well, but waking up at night is always a fight, I try to feed him in 4h intervals, but he wakes up much more often. I might have low supply, since he has never lasted 4h on BF only. I know however BM becomes fattier, so empty breasts is not a sign either.

I am a bit lost, so hope some look from a perspective? how do I start assessing if he needs more BF? How and if should I address this - is it not too late?

Thanks in advance!

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Firstly, many ebf babies do not make the 4 hrly feeds...mine really did not until we were well on solids, and DD3 still loved a good top up feed up until 8 months or so, at which time she was on three meals a day (we did blw not much purees, so that was when her pincer grasp developed and eating really took off!). I could be the solids are filling him up and not leaving room for nutrient dense bm...100ml 3 x a day is quite a bit. Personally I would try to cut back and up his bf for a bit and see if that helps any. Other reasons for nw's could of course be teething, or developmental (two of mine always woke at night when learning a new skill!).

[Mimmi]

Thank you for looking into this!
It sounds very reasonable that most babies wouldn't make the 4hrly feeds. I'm up for cutting back some solids. Esp since there will be 2 days this week that he'll be fed Formula (I am off for all day and he doesn't take frozen milk) and milk + formula next day (since there will be some EBM), so might be possible to notice changes.

What intervals would you suggest feeding after dinner during night? He wakes up way more often, so I do need some plan to hold on to..
His hunger cues are hard to understand at night..

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Does he take a soother at all? Do you try to settle him at night without a feed at all? Does he fall asleep on his own (just wondering if it is possible bf has become a prop)?. Sorry for all the questions!

[Mimmi]

nono - thank you for the questions! Thank you for looking into this!

he takes soother, but I only try limiting it for the sleep time only.
For a month now we try sleep training, so I try feeding him every 4h, but ie tonight he was waking up everyhour and looked starving. Whereas previous nights that wasn't that obvious.
He has himself cut amount of solids (ie this morning took 2 tsp of cereal, instead of usual ~4tbsp), so he might be hungry - I fed him 3 times last night out of 7 wakeups.
I try all possible ways to sooth him at night.
He knows how to self settle during the day, but nights are nightmares - he seems to forget all he knows and needs my help.
Recently nothing soothes him except holding or feeding.

ps he just had his 2 bottom teeth show up, so I guess might be sensitive thus less solids and thus asking for more milk at night?
However we haven't had longer sleep stretch than 2h for several months now, so this is not only teeth related..

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

If the nw's have been that freqeunt for so long (since before starting solids?) then I don't think solids is the total cause (or teeth - though that certainly can't have helped!). Would you be able to post a day/night in EAS format? Kind of curious if it is a case of a routine tweak needed, a prop thing or something else.

[Cvbaby2014]

Jumping in here as our LOs are the same age!  I have also posted a NW question on the BF forum.   I would say that feeding by schedule seems to rarely work for BF babes....I did have a serious supply issue and an underweight baby at 4 months.  This is resolved now but I still am very aware of trying to reduce the number of feeds and put him on a schedule potentiLly causing the issue again..all the advice I have been given by lactation consultants is to offer the breast often.  So in my case I BF, offer solids 30-60mins after...so he has 2 BF between naps. 
The other thing is that hopefully once they get a little older they will actually be able to tell us or indicate better when they are hungry!  Right now I feel like I feed all the time, but I am sure as solids become a greater part of their calorie intake this will reduce.  I spoke to some Le Leche group leaders this week who mentioned this to me.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

The thing about BW is that it is a routine not a schedule...so the pattern of EAS is more key than the time, and keeping the E & S separate to hopefully avoid the prop of feeding to sleep. Often times it can look like  EAEAS, I did that for a long time with DD3 as she had high A times and needed a top up before naps. All three of my kids had completely different routines, whatever worked for them is what I did.

[Cvbaby2014]

I agree, and the pattern of EAS really works ... and we try to avoid naps after the top up feed for at least 10 mins (quiet play etc). 
How does not feeding before sleep work at bedtime and NW?   I was wondering if that impacts the fact that often I need to feed to calm my LO down at night.  Even if they go to bed awake at bedtime, should the feed be shifted to say before the bath (we do quiet play, bath then feed...then into bed).

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

That was one part of EASY where I did not follow...I fed all my kids to sleep at bedtime until they stopped wanting to - ended up being around 4 months old that they would still be awake after that feed (or not completely drowsy) and join in story time with everyone else. NF's are always meant to be straight back to sleep, no interaction etc.

[*Ali*]

Tracy actually said it is fine to feed straight before sleep at BT.

[1stimer]

Goodness I could have written this post word for word as we are in the same spot with our 8mo!! Following along to see what comes up! We've tried everything I feel and nothing seems to work either!