5 MO - Extended A time, but still short naps

[jellyfur]

Hello,

My LO has always been a good sleeper (slept through from 6 weeks) but recently we've been having short naps and frequent night waking (I've posted the NW issue on the appropriate thread there). Got some great advice to extend her A time by 10 - 15 minutes in order to get her to nap longer, however it only worked for a few days then we were back to square one.  Also been reading up on the 3-2 nap transition which I'm trying to implement just now as she was showing signs she was ready for this (waking early, fighting sleep at bedtime).

She used to nap for a good 1 - 1.5 hours when we were doing the 3 hour EASY but ever since we moved to the 4 hour EASY naps have gotten shorter and shorter (sometimes I only get 30 / 40 mins before she wakes). She's clearly still tired when she wakes from her nap though, and if I settle her again (shssh pat) she will sometimes go back to sleep, other times no chance!

Our typical day is:

Wake: 06:30 / 07:00
E: 07:00
A: 06:30 - 09:00 (usually try and keep her awake for 2.5 hours, sometimes only manage 2 hours 15 before she goes nuts and wants to nap)
S: 09:00 - 09:40 (she'll wake up and will need resettled). Will sometimes then nap for the full 1.5 hours

Wake: 10:30
E: 11:00
A: 10:30 - 13:00 (she usually wakes up before her next feed so some extra A time needed. I usually keep this light though)
S: 13:00 - 14:00 (sometimes she doesn't go back down for a nap until 14:00 and naps until 15:00 if we're out at a baby class)

E: 15:00
A: until 5pm (ish)
S: 17:00 - 17:40 (cat nap but I'm trying to phase that out now)

Bath, feed and bed by 19:30
DF: 22:30

Any advice that will help with the napping (I suspect appropriate napping will be the key to stopping her stirring through the night). I'm also planning to move her through to her own room in the next few weeks so would rather not be running through every couple of hours to settle her when she stirs.

Thanks
x

[Kellyjs]

I think if the increase in A time worked last time hun, I would do it again. Around now, LO's usually like to shake things up a bit and like an increase in A times. As you said, it may well be the 3-2. You could look at capping that down to 30mins now? That might help with the increase in A times elsewhere and keep BT to a reasonable time.

As she is still tired when she wakes, I'm thinking just a little increase may be all she needs. Maybe 10-15mins?

I would also not worry about resettling her if she stirs at night hun, perhaps wait for an 'I need you' cry. This is essential around this age as they won't become reliant on us to see them back off to sleep.

Any teething going on that you can see too? Xx

[jellyfur]

Thanks @kellyjs. I've been extending the A times now for almost 10 days but still no joy. This morning she woke up at 6:20am and I didn't put her down for her nap until 9:00am - she napped for 40 minutes and then woke up full of beans, squealing, blowing raspberries and kicking her legs. Did the same last night when I put her down to bed -  she usually goes down at 7:30pm but took me until 9:30pm to settle her and she was doing the over excitied thing  . It feels like she's suddenly just gotten a huge burst of energy (all the time!)

She is teething (has been on and off since 8 weeks) but I don't think that's the issue as she's given plenty of teething liquid on her gums before naps, and if necessary calpol before bed (when she's crying and tugging her ear). The NW are usually around the same time every night now (give or take 15/20 mins). 1:50am then around 3/4am then wakes up an hour earlier than she used to (now 6:30am).

Also, sorry for the stupid question, but what's an "i need you" cry? How does it differ from normal crying? 

Thanks! x

[Kellyjs]

Ha I call most types of crying an 'I need you cry' as that's their way of communicating with you. A mantra cry, however is different. See here What’s a mantra cry?

Sometimes a little humming or fussing rather than crying is best left without interfering. Even a one off blast cry out, I think is best left. Do you get what I mean? I don't think I'm explaining all that well 

Any new developmental stuff going on atm? Do you follow the wonder weeks at all?

How much have you increased the A time by in the last 10 days hun? Do you think she might be getting OT by the increase? Overexcited ness can sometimes be their second wind and have gone,onto OT xx

[jellyfur]

Ahh, I get what you mean. I'd say that the cries at night (when stirring) and also before she wakes up from her nap are mantra cries - as in they are definitely not the same as her full blown ones, but it's a bit confusing as I've tried to leave her when she does this but it then quickly escalates into her waking up fully and going into a full blown cry.

I have the wonder weeks app and according to that she should be going through a development leap at the moment - although her change in napping and NW has been going on for a couple of weeks now.

I've increased her A time by 10 - 15 mins only. I did that for 4 days as suggested then was planning to up another 10-15 minutes but haven't got to that stage yet as she can't stay awake that long and I prefer to put her down awake rather than have her fall asleep on me / in her playnest / in her playgym etc.

I'm hoping this is just a phase??

[Kellyjs]

It's great you've identifies the mantra cries. My DD is like that too.. It can escalate. I just go to her at that point, thus giving her the chance to resettle.

Do you want to try just another 5 or 10 mins for now? Maybe keep the A time light like reading a story or nappy change? I used to carry DD around the house and point out all the things I need to clean whilst she's asleep.. Sad, I know  . I know you don't want her falling asleep on you, but a quick change of scenery might help? Xx

[jellyfur]

Thanks Kellyjs

I extended A time for a further 10 minutes over the last few days so we're now up to approx. 2.5 hours of A time. Naps are getting better (bit hit and miss some days like yesterday when she napped for 40 minutes then woke up bright as a button) but definitely getting better. Most days I get two good naps from her. The 5pm catnap has pretty much gone now - sometimes she'll take a short 20 - 30 minute nap at 4pm (if she's not napped well for the two main naps). She's not fighting sleep anymore at bedtime and sometimes falls asleep mid-feed at 7pm.

NW a complete other story though - this has gotten MUCH worse. She's waking several times during the night, and where she would previously just stir and resettle easily, she's waking up fully, thrashing around and crying (not mantra cry). Takes me about an hour to resettle her. Feel like I've been hit with a freight train as I've never really had to deal with her waking up during the night since she was very little.

No idea what to try next? Any suggestions?

[Kellyjs]

Great news about the naps hun  . You may find she might need an extra 10mins or so added on in the next week when she's used to the new times.

That sounds suspiciously like teething hun, anything you can see?

Teething hits us hard in this house too, normally quite unexpected. I had a good few months of her sleeping like a log at nighttime then bam, canines came through at 18mo. She actually slept better at night when she was 2mo! Ibuprofen works wonders for teething as does elevating the mattress slightly with a couple of towels under one end x

[jellyfur]

Not sure if it's teething that's waking her up - could be as she's defintely teething (drooling, chewing everything, tugging ear etc.) but don't actually see any sign of a tooth coming through.  Before her NW's were kind of erratic (never the same time) whereas now she tends to wake on or around 3 / 3:30am (ish). It's not hunger because she isn't even hungry for her morning bottle when she wakes up.

She just generally seems unsettled at night now. Often wakes up crying half an hour to a hour after we put her down which she never used to do.

Hmmm...I hope it is teething and just a phase that we'll get through.

Thanks again for all your advice