4.5mo please help me figure it out

[songbird]

Hi ladies,

DS is now 4.5 months old (turning 5 months in 9 days), and I would really appreciate some help on figuring out what to do with his routine. I just don't know whether he is OT, LSN, UT, OS or something else? The problems I have are (1) that he almost always short naps (generally 35 minutes, sometimes 30 or 40), and that (2) he is very clingy during much of his A time (wanting to be held or carried) - I wonder if it's because he's not getting enough sleep or something else??

His EASY is a bit all over the place, but generally his A times are 2hr 20 (this occasionally gives a good nap in the morning of 1hr40m) and if he short naps (35m usually) then the next A time I shorten it to 2 hours (any time earlier he just wouldn't go down. I tried 1hr45, 1hr30 etc he will just be fussing but not fall asleep even with AP). He always wakes happy from his short naps and crying after a long one (even 2hrs + he still wakes up crying).

Because of the time it takes to get him to nap again I wonder if he's LSN, but then a few times now when I take him out on the stroller he'd fall asleep around 1hr30?? Does this mean that he's actually not able to sleep earlier due to OT? (These strollers naps would end with him waking up around 30minutes being happy). Any thoughts???

I'm also still trying to teach IS - mostly I am able to pat him in my arms until very drowsy and lay down to continue to pat him to sleep on his side. But there are a lot of jerks in the first 10-20 minutes and I really have to stay for the whole 20 minutes.

At night, I am also getting 1-2hr long NW around 11pm (which is approx. 5hrs after BT). I feed him on both sides and then he's just wide awake. I leave him to it and he cries after a few minutes, I pick him up, he stops crying but is just awake in my arms staring at me (yawning but not getting drowsy). I pat him in the cot and the same thing (plus lots of wriggling). After a bit of settling then I give up and leave him to it, then he cries again after a few minutes - rinse and repeat. It always takes a long time before he would go back to sleep again. These long NWs - can they be caused by OT or do they indicate UT/simply an inability to self settle??

Quite often I'd have to feed him to sleep during the day because he always wakes one last time around 4/5am and that means when he wakes up for good in the morning around 6am he's not hungry until around 8 which is his nap time, so I just end up feeding him to sleep, and then this will repeat 3 hours later.

I'm really tired of the short naps and his constantly being cranky - any advice based on his behaviour please?? I should add that he seems to be spirited/textbook.

I wrote down a standard day for us below but it's different day to day

WU 5.50?6am? Not really sure 
First nap - 8.20 - 10am (need to resettle around 35m mark but easily go back to sleep in my arms)
E - 10am
Second nap - 12.20 to 12.55
Feed 1pm
Third nap - 2.50 to 3.30
E - 4pm
BT - 6pm (with top up feed and he fell asleep feeding at BT - he always does that)

NW: 11pm - 1am(!!) and then at 4am, 5am waking up at 6.20 this morning.

Grateful for any help!

[newkidontheblock]

Honey, I wonder whether that is not too much A time for him. 2.20 at 4.5 months is on the higher side. Waking at 30/35 minutes but being able to settle him does also sound like OT to me. Would you be willing to pull back to a consistent 2 hours A? It is possible his A a bit more but I wouldn't think more than 2.10 at this point. The first nap of the day is usually the easiest to settle as they are the best rested at that point and they get increasingly OT as the day progresses if the A is off. Don't be confused by him falling asleep in the stroller with a shorter A - the movement is so soothing & makes them sleepy. And since he wakes happy, I would say UT.

Oh and also, DD wakes up from all naps crying. Even after a 2.5 hour one. I think it is just down to their personality - she is also textbook/spirited. Her spirited side only showed at 5/6 months. Before that she would always wake up happy & chatting

I think, honey, that there are quite a few prop issues at play here, which might be more of the cause of this issues. If he is feeding to sleep and then being soothed in arms, he might need that in order to transition ys? I think you would have to hold off on that - feed on WU - even if he has a small feed and try to get him to sleep in his crib - ie: pat/shush or rub his back - anything - but in his crib. Do you think that is something that you could work on?

[becj86]

Have you tried extending that second nap of the day after the 35min WU? To me, the 2:20 looks ok for him and it doesn't take much to be there at this age, actually, if he's heading for 3hr A by 6 months, you could well be at 2:30 by 5 months, yk?

At this age, there is a change in their sleep cycle depth (for want of a better descriptor) and they do have to learn how to get through that transition (that's often known as the 4 month sleep regression if you had a kid who slept well before this developmental blip - the long waking and the clinginess fits with the developmental leap idea too). I'd suggest trying HTTJ at 30min and see if it helps him get through the transition and sleep a longer nap. 

Agree that waking crying can just be a temperament thing, mine still does at 4

Is he BF? The wriggling sounds like it could be digestive discomfort - what do you think?

WRT feeding to sleep, you're in the easiest time to drop that prop now, up until about 6 months when it gets harder. Really, even if you could feed at 7:30 in the morning and then have a bit of A before sleep, that will help to break that association. Can you feed just one side at 5am and see if that helps morning intake? If he currently feeding at both 4 and 5am? If so, the 5am waking could well be gas rather than hunger but he will root and the feeding pushes everything along and helps release the gas.

[songbird]

Thanks I have stopped feeding to sleep for naps but am still having trouble teaching him to self settle. Tbh it's driving me to tears at some nap times.

I don't think it's digestive issue (yes he's EBF) but he just doesn't like patting in bed? I can pat him in my arms to get him to very very drowsy and continue patting in his cot on his side (patting his bottom). But if he's slightly more alert, he would not relax when I pat him in bed. He tries to get up on his front,  just trying to get up basically.  If i pick him up he can fall asleep in my arms quite quickly so I think it's not an A time problem but I'm not sure.

I tried to persist and just kept putting him down once he got drowsy again but after a few times he generally just becomes wide awake. It drives me insane. I can only conclude that this patting doesn't relax him at all. Rubbing is the same.  Patting him on his front just leads to him staring at me wide awake.

Any other soothing techniques I can use to get him to self settle?? If he doesn't like patting it just feels like he will never be soothed to sleep by it??

A time is now 2hr 25 - 30. I do try to resettle after a sport nap and it mostly works provided that I get to him immediately to pick up and rock/pat.....so prop issues obviously...

Thanks again

[newkidontheblock]

It still seems like OT to me, TBH. I feel he is too tired to relax & settle and in the bargain with being picked up and put down, he is getting his second wind. If he doesn't like to be patted or rubbed, how about just holding till drowsy, putting down and leaving? If he gets upset, you could try just keeping a hand on him or hands off and just humming softly. I don't think him being able to sleep easily in your arms indicates that A is correct. You are so warm & comfortable and he is completely relaxed in your arms.  With DD, we committed to a week of being in her room for naps at around 38 minutes when she would normally WU. We would put a hand on her and pat until she fell back asleep. After a week, we backed off and she slept through.

I would really suggest trying to avoid picking up. It was exactly the same with my DD. We always had to pick up to settle. But it became a problem at around 9 months. We had to commit to settling her any which way in the crib - rubbing, patting, stroking. I always thought she hated being touched and it was making everything worse but she finally settled. There were 2 days of lots of tears but things got loads better after that, and it is so much easier this way. 

[becj86]

Agree that if patting isn't helping, you can find your own way, basically a calming hand on his back or singing a song quietly or whatever. Actually just putting down drowsy and seeing what happens is worth it - sometimes you'll find they go off to sleep without the shushing/patting, etc.

Have a read about hold through the jolts and give that a go - its easier on LO and you if you can be there when they stir to resettle than running in when LO cries.