14 week old moving from 3hr to 4hr feeding schedule

[RhoGre]

My baby boy is a large baby (15 lbs at 2 months so more now).  He has always been on EASY but it has not been easy lol.  He was napping well and able to extend the naps and his nights were very good.  Recently I can not extend the nap and he just started night waking.  He is not hungry at night b/c he would mantra and put himself back to sleep until 7:00 or 7:30 but it would take an hour or so.  He can at times sleep a full nap on his own but if he does not I feel helpless to help him.  I wait and don't rush in b/c he does mantra and has settled himself in the past but it is a gamble.  If he doesn't settle it can escalate.  He sometimes takes over 30 minutes to settle himself into the next nap cycle...but not lately.  Have I taken away his self soothing skills by going in to help him?  I only shh pat, use my voice ...I just started some PU/PD....I know I am rambling here... it is just frustrating b/c I know he is tired and if I get him up early it is bad and if I try to extend the nap and he cries the whole time it's bad b/c he's overtired.  He is rarely hungry after 3 hrs...b/c he is so efficient in eating (breast feeding).  I can get him up and put him on the bed to calm for 10-15 and he doesn't cry for food.  I have been trying to extend the wake time ...but he is always tired around 1hour. Today he woke at 7:00...I put down at 8:23 (a few minute wind down)..he settles very easy to sleep (which I don't want to mess up) .. He woke at 9:20 ish and I tried until 10 to settle...he did settle a few times but couldn't fall asleep...I got him up and put on changing table to calm until 10:15 for next feed...he was quiet that whole time..I feed.. and put down at 11:18 (he was so tired)..he fussed a little and went to sleep.....I am concerned b/c he has been up since 9:20 and now he is so overtired...it makes the rest of the day hard but I can't increase the feeds...he spits up soooo much if I feed too often....also I put him on his belly to sleep...He used to be swaddled on belly w/ rolled towels to kind of keep him on his side but he is using his fingers to self sooth (that is how he gets to second sleep cycle when he can do it)....but if he gets too upset the hands to interfere b/c he is strong and is starting to push up a lot and roll over!  I just gentle put him down and try to calm....I am unsure what to do to help him to sleep more so that he night routine doesn't get messed up .....I put him to bed at 5:30 last night b/c he was so overtired from poor naps and unsuccessful nap extentions...... Also...I am having trouble knowing when to pick him up for PUPD b/c he mantra's a lot and I don't want to mess him up if he is trying to sleep...hard to tell!! Please any insight? Thanks

[Kellyjs]

Sorry for the late reply hun. Welcome to BW.

Would you mind posting your easy for me please? So like this..

Wu 7
E 7.15
A 7 - 8 .
S 8-etc etc all the way to BT and any NW's

1hr seems a little short of an A time at this age. Some are closer to 1hr 20-30 so that might be what's going on. He's having an UT nap which you're unable to settle then he's getting OT as the day goes on due to the short naps. Anyhoo, I'm just guessing atm, will be able to tell more when I see your easy then we can make a plan ok? X

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

[RhoGre]

Thank you! We are struggling

So far today...

Wu 6:25 -7 (we tried to get back to sleep till 7)
E 7 - 7:20
A 7 - 8:30 (OT)
S 8:36
W 9:15 (tried to get back to sleep till 10:20)
E 10:35 - 10:50
A 10:20 - 11:25
S 11:35 - present

current BT is 6-6:30 with no NW's

Our EASY goal is BW four hour sched

Wu 7
E 7
A 7-9
S 9 - 11

E 11
A 11 - 1
S 1 - 3

E 3
A 3 - 5
S catnap
BT 7

[Kellyjs]

I think you're trying to push the A time too long hun. It's only around 4.5-5 mo when they can manage a 2hr awake time. See here Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

I would maybe pull back the A time to 1.5hrs and see if that makes a difference? Also some LO's never quite get to a 4-hr feeding schedule especially when BF, so shall we try 3-3.5hrs so it fits in with the New A times?

I was also try and use ssh/pat at this age to calm him and keep that consistent. Pu/do can become a little too stimulating for younger kiddos I'll be back in a mo to post a link.

How does that sound so far? Fancy giving it a go and letting me know? X

Shush-pat - How to

[RhoGre]

Ok...I think maybe I have pushed him a little too much...but in the past I think I was putting him down too early b/c he started only sleeping one cycle on his first nap and then his second nap he would sleep two but it would take him about 30 minutes of mantra to get there.  But now he is waking at every nap after the first cycle.  I don't understand why he can do it sometime but not others.....Today he woke at 7..I started to put him down at 8:24...left him at 8:31...he was asleep around 8:42ish.  He woke at 9:20...was quiet for a few minutes and then started to cry...I could not settle him to sleep ..I did PU/PD and he calmed ...but was holding his head up ...then started to cry...went back in...I do try shh/pat ....but it does seem to disturb him more....I used to just go in..touch him a little and reassure and then he would sleep..now suddenly I have to stay in there the entire 40-50 minutes until the next feed time...Have I been doing something to take away his sleeping skills?  Is is b/c he is getting older?  I try my hand, voice, a little patting (I have tried firm patting)...it seems like less is more with him yet I have yet to settle him back down on a nap ... the only time he sleeps longer is if he does it...I thought PU/PD is too soon but I have to calm him b/c he spits up a lot when very upset and .... BW does suggest picking up a child under  3 months right?  what is the difference between that and PU/PD? I am a bit frustrated b/c I am trying to be consistent but he is not sleeping enough during the day and I can't stand the 2nd cycle of crying during every nap....yesterday I put him to be at 6 b/c he is so over tired and the feed times are later in the day so we are skipping the cat nap but he isn't sleep long on the 3rd nap...so we try for about an hour to go back to sleep...if I just get him up...it will be terrible......any advice?  I know I ramble...but I have so many questions!

[RhoGre]

Also, am I being inconsistent b/c I have started PU/PD and then going back to trying shh pat?  I just haven't found shhh pat to work really well....I am going to try it again...I just read the link - thank you.  I don't want to change the rules on him...I know he does have self soothing skills...he is using his hands...it is just confusing b/c one nap he does it and then 10 he does not and then he does it...I am not sure if I am helping or hindering.....

[Martini~]

How is it going Honey?

[RhoGre]

It is going.. LOL.  I have tried Wake-to-sleep to lengthen the naps...yesterday 2 of the 3 naps were lengthened but I don't know if wake-to-sleep had anything to do with it b/c he did wake anyway but put himself back to sleep (which is great!)...today though we had 3 short naps and I could not calm to sleep ... I am confused as to what to do....He falls asleep w/ no props..my voice & hand seem to annoy him... patting doesn't work and neither does rubbing his back...it seems like the more I do the more I make it worse...he gets more agitated and can not fall asleep...yet if I just leave him...he will cry and stop and cry and stop...it sounds like a frustrated mantra and will eventually turn into a loud cry....short naps do not do well for him...his nights are good but he wakes several times before the dream feed (each cycle) and puts himself to sleep but sometimes will cry off and on for a whole cycle...clearing he needs more day time sleep...I really just do not know how to help him... sometimes he sleeps a good nap but it is getting fewer and fewer....like once every 5 days...it used to be more consistent...that is why I thought about going to the 4 hour cycle...I really need some insight!

[Martini~]

That was to be question:). On what A are you now?