Help me with DD's latch?

[~*Nicole*~]

DD was very sleepy when we first came home. She was not eating much and she also latched on but quickly backed off. I have cracked, scabby nipples. Ouch. I know to break suction and try to re-latch. She is VERY hard to detach as she clamps down with her gums very hard and I have to wedge my finger into her mouth and try to pry it open to get her to release.

Also, she is still getting sleepy very quickly and backing off my breast and keeping just nipple in her mouth. Constantly trying to detach her and start over is getting frustrating. Plus she rarely wants to go back on anyway as she is sleepy and won't open her mouth back up for more. She is only nursing for very short periods of time. Often she only has 5 minute sessions. I try to burp and wake up and try to continue the sessions but it is really hard. Her longest is maybe 15 minutes.

She is gaining weight and I make enough milk, HELLO engorgement. I had to use a manual pump to relieve some pressure and pain a couple of times. Trying to not do this right now because I don't want to encourage my body to make more milk yet when she isn't taking what I already have now hehe.

Any tips on a better latch?

[becj86]

Hi Sounds like LO is having trouble with the flow... Try lying back on about a 30-45 degree angle and let LO latch at the beginning of the feed. Once I stopped trying to do the 'mechanics' of latching for DS, I had the first pain-free latch ever and he latched much more deeply when I was lying back because the milk was flowing against gravity and was therefore slightly more manageable.

We had the clamping too - in our case it was another attempt to slow the flow but I lost a large chunk of nipple, so best to get the latch sorted as soon as you can xx

DYT she's getting enough in that first few minutes? I know DS was and the extra stimulation of leaving him on just increased my supply way too much and led to issues.

[~*Nicole*~]

Hi  Sounds like LO is having trouble with the flow... Try lying back on about a 30-45 degree angle and let LO latch at the beginning of the feed. Once I stopped trying to do the 'mechanics' of latching for DS, I had the first pain-free latch ever and he latched much more deeply when I was lying back because the milk was flowing against gravity and was therefore slightly more manageable.

That could definitely be. I will try laying back at our next feed.

We had the clamping too - in our case it was another attempt to slow the flow but I lost a large chunk of nipple, so best to get the latch sorted as soon as you can xx

I am not totally sure about trying to control the flow but maybe she does in her sleep because at the start she is very actively sucking and swallowing and handling the flow fine. Then she seems to drift off and do some suck suck swallow breathe, nothing/sleep, suck suck swallow breath, nothing/sleep, then she'll be in a deeper sleep and CLAMP and not let go when I try to get my finger in there. As she is getting sleepy I am trying to keep her more awake and alert, tickling her, flicking her foot, moving her arm, touching her ear, keeping her undressed, wiping her with a cool wipe. But she just drifts off.

DYT she's getting enough in that first few minutes? I know DS was and the extra stimulation of leaving him on just increased my supply way too much and led to issues.

She was one oz. shy of being back up to her birth weight at the ped. today. She is 5 days old so I think she is getting enough.

[*Ali*]

How old is your DD now?

Can you get a lactation consultant to observe a feed for you? We ca only do so much over the net and you ideally need a professional.

[~*Nicole*~]

She is 5 days old.

I actually had a lactation consultant watch and help in the hospital and can attend a free meeting on Wed. at the hospital to have more help. She had me latch a certain way which worked for a few minutes, but was awkward for me the way she wanted me to position my hands. Because it felt awkward I moved and then DD backed off and wasn't latched as deeply right after the lady left.

I know there's only so much you can say through internet but was hoping someone might have some suggestions in between now and Wednesday and I really can't attend the meeting if I can't find childcare for the other LOs so it may not be totally possible. I can call and ask questions but I don't think they do home visits.

[binxyboo]

Congrats on your new little baby! If she is already almost back to her birth weight, that is fabulous. Are you so engorged she might be having difficulty with that? With my second, I had big issues with latching, but once we mastered the asymmetrical latch, we did so much better. I am going to try to link a video for you, but if it doesn't work, please try to Google it. Dr. Jack Newman has some good videos on it. It feels a bit awkward at first, but is really great once you get into the swing of it. If baby is getting plenty of milk in a fast amount of time, it might be all that she needs. Her weight seems to suggest that she is. How often is she feeding?

Video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO5ZDKynaD0

[weaver]

I can't imagine you have much time on your hands (!) but a look around Jack Newman's site might help, something might click with you.  Here for starters:
http://www.breastfeedinginc.ca/content.php?pagename=doc-WL
http://www.breastfeedinginc.ca/content.php?pagename=vid-28hrbaby
http://www.breastfeedinginc.ca/content.php?pagename=vid-2dayold

For sore nipples, you might be able to find MultiMam patches, they are AMAZING if you can get them. Sounds like LO is doing really really well.

[~*Nicole*~]

Thank you ladies! Seeing the videos was really helpful. The lactation consultant at the hospital was trying to explain the latch but did not really convey the compressed chin, nose away and seeing it visually was better.

One of the statements on the site said something like "Babies don't fall asleep at the breast because they're tired. They fall asleep because they are frustrated with a slow flow." The videos talked about compressing and making sure baby is swallowing and not just nibbling/sucking and not swallowing mouthfuls of milk. That is a bit confusing since I can hear and see DD swallowing mouthfuls and she still falls asleep at the breast. I can't imagine the flow is slow.

It looks like the asymmetrical latch is the one she had me trying at the hospital. I will keep practicing.

bec-I tried lying back a bit or at least leaning back and that felt pretty good during nursing but she did still clamp down as she fell asleep.

Thank you ladies. I am going to try to ask my mom to watch the kids and try to attend the lactation group tomorrow.

I don't remember if I had trouble with my other two at the beginning. It's all a blur!

[koe2moe]

Nicole, I don't have tips for the latch but perhaps something that can help with unlatching.  Put your thumb in her palm, either one or both, and gently press your thumb into her palm, she should open her mouth and turn her face towards that side.  Do try different hand and both.  Let me know how she responds to the stimulation on her palm.  If it doesn't work, I can try to work something else out.  HTH x

[binxyboo]

She is still so teeny tiny, they really do fall asleep all the time at that age. She will wake up more before you know it. With such fast feeds and great weight gain so far, I can't imagine slow flow is an issue here. More likely she is feeding so well, and getting high doses of oxytocin as, and falling back to sleep all snug with Mom!

[deb]

My computer isn't playing the videos right for some reason but what I remember both times with my two was to make sure the nipple is along the ROOF of baby's mouth, not the center; baby's bottom lip went right on the edge of my aureole and then when she sucked, the nipple was pulled along the roof of her mouth on the upper palate? (So many years ago!) But THAT I remember really really well.

I think this is even the same graphic the LC gave me: http://quickening.id.au/qss/articles/breastfeeding-attachment-diagram.jpg

[weaver]

The videos talked about compressing and making sure baby is swallowing and not just nibbling/sucking and not swallowing mouthfuls of milk. That is a bit confusing since I can hear and see DD swallowing mouthfuls and she still falls asleep at the breast. I can't imagine the flow is slow.

I would go with your gut on that one, all babies are individuals, and these guys obviously have to generalise a bit.  You could try a bit of compression if you want to, the worst that'll happen is LO will sputter a bit.  With my LO1, we needed to do compressions and it made an obvious difference, he perked up and was more interested in the beginning of the feed, and then stayed on nursing well for at least ten minutes a time. 

If she's doing enough wet nappies for you, and gaining weight, i don't think there's a problem with what's going in, more *how* it's going in, iyswim.  The wet nappies are important

[becj86]

Glad lying back helped, it made a big difference for us xx

L clamped when he wanted the flow to stop, (usually with a subsequent letdown he'd clamp and shake his head like a dog with a snake, TG there's no shaking for you!) so she may just want to sleep without milk squirting down her throat...

[~*Nicole*~]

so she may just want to sleep without milk squirting down her throat...

I am actually thinking this may be the case LOL

Thank you ladies.

I am definitely going to the meeting tomorrow. My nipples are so cracked and my breasts are so full that they are really tender and hurting. Definitely a recipe for mastitis if it's not already started.

If she's doing enough wet nappies for you, and gaining weight, i don't think there's a problem with what's going in, more *how* it's going in, iyswim.  The wet nappies are important

and Yes...definitely enough wet diapers. Wet and lots of pooping!

[deb]

You can always use the pump to at least get to a place where you aren't engorged. As long as you don't try to express TOO much, it shouldn't signal your body to make much more, and it can't hurt to have a spare ounce or two set aside - you never know when it'll come in handy!