Author Topic: Desperate for help with 4MO  (Read 1382 times)

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Offline mazza123

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Desperate for help with 4MO
« on: July 31, 2015, 12:24:16 pm »
Our DS is four months- I am still feeding 3 hourly-ish over night, longer only if he sleeps a bit longer. It varies a bit but his 24 hour cycle tends to look like this:

A 7am
E 7:15  feed (BF & then bottle top up about 30 mins later)
S 8:30am
A 10am (often he wakes up after 45 mins but usually we just put the paci back in & he'll go back, or we'll shush, or if ned be rock a little)
E 10:30am (BF plus bottle top up 30 mins later)
A
S 11:30am-1pm
E 1:30 plus bottle from 2-3 trying to get him to take some
A
S 3-4/4:30
E 5 BF then 5:30 bottle
A bath and then bed
S 6/6:30
E 7:30/8 (BF pus bottle)
E 10:30/11 (BF plus bottle)
E 2am (BF plus bottle)
E 4am OR
A 6:30/7am

I have had no sleep longer than 4 hours since he arrived! He turned a corner and goes down for naps very easily and for a while slept 1.5-2 hours without waking but night time is not good. Right now he is crying and unsettled & my DH is trying to settle him.
I have two problems- his weight gain slowed so I give him a top up at each feed, and I feel like I don't have a lot of milk but I want to keep offering him BF first, but getting him to be interested in the bottle is difficult so his awake time can be filled with lots of little sips of the bottle to get a decent amount in. Then overnight some nights he is, as he is tonight, just crying and upset and unsettled. He is never really like this during the day.
So, my issue is sleep but I'm guessing I'm also doing the feed thing wrong...
He is number two and it is different/more of a juggle than number one.
Please help!

Offline becj86

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Re: Desperate for help with 4MO
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2015, 04:15:48 am »
Hi :)

First off, it may be yield better naps to increase those A times - average at 4 months is 2hr and too-short A times is a common source of sleep troubles at this age.

WRT weight gain - if he was hungry, I'd have thought he'd take a bottle given you're offering so regularly and he is drinking some at times. I could well be wrong of course ;) When you say his weight gain dropped, how so? Has he been following a centile line and then dropped? If so, how much has he dropped? Why do you feel you don't have much milk?

Is he waking in between night feeds?

Do you think he could be in pain?

S 6/6:30E 7:30/8 (BF pus bottle)
Why is he feeding so soon after BT?

Sorry that's a lot of questions, just its hard to work out what to suggest without a bit more info.

Hugs xx Its tough when LO is unsettled and you're tired.

Offline mazza123

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Re: Desperate for help with 4MO
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2015, 09:51:37 am »
Thank you for replying- I am so desperate and he's so different to DS1!
I guess we're a bit inconsistent with naps- I find in the morning 1.5 hours or just a little longer is just right and he tends to sleep uninterrupted (or just pop the dummy back in).
So yes, we're trying to be consistent with naps, slowly stretching the A time, as the day progresses.
I also find that in the evening because of DS1 that sometimes it can easily be two hours or a bit longer (esp if he's woken early from his third nap) but he is inconsistent with wakefulness and being unsettled.
Last night he settled easily and when he woke up after an hour he was screaming and unsettled. tonight I thought maybe I should try feeding him just before sleep (an extra feed) which resulted in 20 minutes of crying and then I gave him some infant's formula, the safe settling forula for windy babies and he settled almost immediately and is now asleep (no idea why- it didn't work that quickly).
So this is all long-winded- to sum, he is inconsistent with being unsettled and crying, and honestly it tends not to last hours or anything like that, but sometimes he is pulling up his legs etc and I wonder if it's because he really needs that full three and a half hours to four between feeds?
RE his weight- he was 75% percentile, now is around 30/40- I am expressing when I can because I think I have enough milk but he seems to get distracted feeding v easily and I suspect maybe he has always had a slight tongue tie which means his latch has always been ok but never great, so that combined with being interested in the world means he just doesn't take as much and so the formula and EBM in the bottle seems to help.
Today we've decided to only feed him in one sitting, not to wait and top him up.
In the morning when he wakes I give him 1-2 teaspoons of rice cereal with milk because he's so interested in food, but that's really just a practicing thing- he doesn't get much from that.
I suspect I've rambled so much you still won't be able to help but I'm just certain that this waking up all through the night can be addressed, it's just the worry that maybe he's hungry combined with my fatigue.
Any ideas/input is so very welcome.

Offline becj86

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Re: Desperate for help with 4MO
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2015, 22:01:42 pm »
Last night he settled easily and when he woke up after an hour he was screaming and unsettled
^This sounds like OT, its pretty classic that those waking shortly after going to bed are related to OT at BT. Could also be gas, which is typically causing that pain around 1hr after a feed.

I thought maybe I should try feeding him just before sleep (an extra feed) which resulted in 20 minutes of crying and then I gave him some infant's formula, the safe settling forula for windy babies and he settled almost immediately and is now asleep (no idea why- it didn't work that quickly).
Was he perhaps looking for an easier feed? Bottle flows and requires less work than breast (opposite for my DS because of my crazy letdown, but generally true). Has your period come back? That can make your milk taste a little different and LO may well feed less through those days until they get used to the variation.

he was 75% percentile, now is around 30/40
Has this drop been sudden (over the last month, say) or gradual from birth?

sometimes he is pulling up his legs etc and I wonder if it's because he really needs that full three and a half hours to four between feeds?
This sounds like gas - it can help to push his knees gently up into his tummy and give him a little tummy massage rather than feeding which perpetuates that cycle. Of course, feed if he's hungry but I found once I helped DS get the gas out, he was much happier without those extra feeds.

I am expressing when I can because I think I have enough milk but he seems to get distracted feeding v easily and I suspect maybe he has always had a slight tongue tie which means his latch has always been ok but never great, so that combined with being interested in the world means he just doesn't take as much and so the formula and EBM in the bottle seems to help.
Sounds like a pretty solid theory to me.

Today we've decided to only feed him in one sitting, not to wait and top him up.
I think given you're topping up for volume reasons, that's a good idea. If you were topping up to keep the gap between feeds smaller if his routine was in one of those in between stages, it would be more appropriate to do as you've been doing.

In the morning when he wakes I give him 1-2 teaspoons of rice cereal with milk because he's so interested in food, but that's really just a practicing thing- he doesn't get much from that.
Is this before or after his milk? Do you think it could be causing some digestive discomfort? It can be a bit much when LO's system is so young, even just the feeling of something more solid traveling through the gut can have a LO squirming and crying - not necessarily painful, just different.

I think in summary, if you can get the feeds consolidated and maybe spaced out a bit more by helping him get rid of the gas when he's needing that, increasing your A times should then be a bit easier and hopefully things will fall into place for you.

Keep in mind LO's A times keep increasing, so by 6 months, they're up around 2:45-3hr, so just keep increasing by ~10-15min every week or two as tolerated and that will help avoid getting into another mess around 5 months ;)

Offline mazza123

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Re: Desperate for help with 4MO
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2015, 11:05:52 am »
This advice has been so helpful- thank you so much. I started replying to everything but really all I need to say is I went back to the book and am following Tracey's two week process for moving from 3 to 4 hour EASY. I thought we were so all over the  place we didn't fit anywhere, as I'd started spreading feeds out to 3.5 hours but his sleep pattern didn't fit- but I realised we could work with the days4-7 as a start and I am following it exactly- he's really settled, he's sleeping often to the exact times specified and he is now having only one feed overnight.
There is light!
He is still waking through the night, but he settles with the dummy replaced in his mouth.
Hopefully we can follow it through and we have some success- I'll check back in.
Thanks again, it was a lifeline to get some feedback and input.