Afternoon nap silliness

[*Liz*]

I don't wake him often TBH - but because we live in chaos he usually does self regulate really. I wake him if it looks like I will end up struggling to get a pm nap in, and I sometimes wake him in the pm to preserve bedtime.

He's dead easy to wake though. Turn off the white noise and he just sits up chatting  .

[Emami]

Annabel's days are pretty much like this:
WU 5:30/6
Nap 9-9:30
Nap 12:30-2
BT 6:30
I would prefer the whole thing shifted about an hour later, but we've fallen into this pattern as it fits in with school runs. The first nap is in the car on the way home, and I like it as she only ever does half an hour in the car so I don't actually have to wake her. Then I have to leave at 3 for pick up, so the pm nap has to be early enough in the day. So same as Liz really

[lily_layne]

Thanks, Emma. I would love it if I could get a CN in while we are out and about in the stroller but it's been ages since he's taking a stroller nap so I don't even know if he would anymore. I am just going to keep rereading these posts so I don't chicken out on waking him.

Today was much better. I woke him at 40m and then he fell asleep nursing 3 hrs later and slept 2h45. An OT crash I'm sure, but I'm glad he caught up on some missed sleep.

[lily_layne]

So I've got some good news and some bad news. Good news: capping the nap is working wonderfully and he's back to self-settling for naps (he was falling asleep nursing for a bit there). Bad news: long NWs.

This is how the last 3 days have gone:
Sun:
WU: 630 or 7 (I can't remember)
S: 9:15-10:05
S: 1-3:45
BT: 7
NW: 10:30-12:30 - woke up crying and then played for ages

Mon:
WU: 6:10
S: 910-1015
S: 140-330
BT: 7
STTN

Tues:
WU: 6:10
S: 9:15-10:05
S: 1:20-3:40
BT: 7 (very tired at BT)
NW: 10:30-12:30 - up crying and then played for a long time

Anything stand out as the cause of the NWs? Is it accumulated OT or UT from the long pm naps? He does have 2 front teeth close to coming through and I gave him advil right when he woke but then he just played for ages after.

[lily_layne]

Ugh. Another long NW (although shorter than the others at least) and he fought the nap for 2 hrs this afternoon   I am one tired (and crabby) mama. Any insight on the NWs?

[lily_layne]

Sorry to keep posting. I am just at a bit of a loss and I think so much about it that I can't see the forest for the trees.

After fighting the nap for aaaaaaaaaaaaaaages, last night was better but he fought his pm nap again today (but I was able to settle him in a reasonable amount of time). He does seem OT (he certainly has puffy circles under his eyes) but I'm not sure what to do. Today was:
WU: 610
S: 910-1005 (I woke)
PD at 1 (he just started to yawn and was clearly tired) but didn't get him to sleep until 1:45

Is it possible that fighting that nap is habit? I think he went to sleep so easily for a few days because he was so tired he just crashed (was pretty much asleep or fully asleep during WD). If he's not nearly asleep when I PD, he just grabs the bars and pops up like a jack-in-the-box and then plays for quite a while. He eventually cries when he wants to get down because he still can't get himself down. I go in when he's no longer just frustrated and if I lay him down he goes berserk so I usually pick him up and nurse him (the screaming really gets to me otherwise) and then he dozes on the breast and goes back to sleep. Does it sound like this is the time for PU/PD (or just PD I guess given his age)? He does self-settle for the am nap and BT (and used to for the pm nap also).

[*Liz*]

Its partly just transition silliness I think. I do think that he doesn't need 2 long naps anymore, and I also think its perfectly possible that the nap ending as late as 4pm might still be an issue as well.

Funnily enough we have started with a string of long NWings this week as well  . Thomas seems to like his sleep  , and has been having 2 x 1.5hr naps a day for a long time, but this week we have had more NWings than usual and some of them have been really long  . We went out for the day yesterday so he had short naps only, and then slept from 7-4, then 4.45-7, which was a ton better. The EW may have been OT or genuine hunger as he hadn't eaten well (out and about, and OT, with a dairy allergy, is pretty hard going  ).

I think you need to cut that am nap to 30 min and try and get that pm nap earlier. Still needs capping at 2ish hrs until 1 nap really  .

[lily_layne]

Its partly just transition silliness I think.

You're probably right. He just looks so tired and I do tend to let the fear OT rule and that can really get in the way at transition times.

I wonder if the long NWings are just developmental then? I am hoping they go away soon although last night and the night before were better.

[*Liz*]

After last night I am wondering the same  . Thomas was awake from 12 until about 1.30am, not doing much, just awake and not settling  . Every 10 mins he would cry and I would give him a cuddle and pop him back. Eventually he went back off.

Its the flipping' clock change here tonight as well  .

[lily_layne]

That sounds exactly like Reidy's NWs earlier this week. I have a close friend with a DS who is only one day younger than DD. It is amazing how often their sleep troubles happened at the same time - goes to show how much of it is really developmental, I think.

Our province doesn't change clocks. I do wish we did except when I think about my LOs sleep - then I'm happy to leave them the same year round. I hope your LOs adjust easily.

I think I need to face the fact that some sleep training may be necessary here. I know a big part of this is 2-1 silliness which makes it tough to get timings right but it seems that if he's the least bit UT, he can't settle. (Maybe my expectations are off since, at this age, I could put DD down a bit UT and she would just roll and play for a while and then sleep.) The other piece is that he still can't get himself down when he stands - I do practice with him but he is terrified when we try. Most pm naps (and BT tonight) he stands as soon as I put him in the crib. He chews the rail (I'm sure it feels good on his sore gums) and chats for about 20 minutes and then cries. I leave him when he's just doing some frustrated fussing but he then gets beside himself and I go in (and letting my anxiety about OT get the better of me) and nurse him again and he usually falls asleep on me. I am sure that if he could get himself down he would self-settle but that may be a while yet. Also, I do need to drop the day feeds soon before I go back to work (he feeds right before he naps) so should I just drop them now if I'm going to do a bit of sleep training? How would you go about this?

[*Liz*]

I agree the getting down again thing will likely pass in a few days/ weeks. He will work it out soon  .

What is your plan re feeds? Are you replacing with a snack or cup of milk? My DD used to feed before she slept, and I found that by dropping naps I could then get rid of the feeds easily enough. I did have to switch to bottles at 8 months though. DO you feel you have a prop element?

[lily_layne]

I've been procrastinating on making a plan on what to replace the feeds with. Thanks for sharing what you did with DD. I will likely replace it with a snack and a cup of milk, I just need to wrap my head around a WD w/o nursing.

I was feeling it was a prop but I've changed my mind again. Before every sleep time he nurses, yawns, rests his head on me a bit and then in bed. If it's morning or BT, he sleeps. There's only silliness in the afternoon so I think it is transition. I capped the nap even further and he's still playing up (today for 1h+ despite being tired). Today I tried settling without nursing when cried (calmed hjm then laid him down) but he just kept playing after, I think the needing to nurse after he plays is the only way to get him to settle for a pm nap so I may just roll with it a bit (I think it's like needing to apop the cn before they drop it???)

When I cut the am nap to 30, I didn't move the pm nap much earlier figuring he maybe wasn't tired enough after 3h A from a 45 min nap so in need of more A time. Is it worth bringing it earlier?
The past few days were:
WU: 615/630
S: 930-10
PD 1/115  S 130/145 (today 230)
BT 7

[*Liz*]

You could always try. I prob would keep the feed before the pm nap since you need him to not wake early with hunger. Megan had a bottle before her lunchtime nap until she was about 2 years old.

How many days with a 30 min nap? I'd be tempted to just wait and see if it settles I think.

[lily_layne]

Reidy was spoiling me for my birthday today! He did a 12h night and then settled easily (and on his own) for the pm nap. He yawned during lunch at just over 2h A time so we finished up and I had him in bed at 2.5h and he drifted right off for 2.5 hrs. I didn't wake him as he's got a tooth cutting today and seemed to need it so we'll see what tonight brings.

Thanks for the reminder to wait and see. Sometimes I expect change too soon.

[*Liz*]

I think when they have a strong body clock they can really mislead you - and thats why you need a week or so before deciding.

Has be kept behaving  ?