5 month old nap help please!

[Rhubarbjam]

My lo would only nap on mw during the day and night, leading to neither of us getting any good quality sleep. So after reading bw bookmy husband took a week off and we decided to go for it. We are now on day 5 using a combination of shh pat and found put she's a tummy sleeper. Night time has been gradually improving and she now sleeps in her cot beside the bed waking only a couple of times. However naps are still a disaster!

She wakes at 6.30, eats then awake time. I try and put her down when she shows signs of tiredness though anywhere between 1 and half hour to 2 hours. We go into nursery, draw curtains so its dark, change nappy, then I hold her and sing a couple of songs whilst holding then place her in cot. (I'm trying to get her to nap here rather than nightie cit so she familiarise herself with it). Then I place her on front and shh pat her back etc. Problem is its now taking increasingly longer for her to go over, it was 5 min on the first day, now it's 20 and alot of crying. Also she will only last 30 min despite attempting to re settle her. This in turn throws the whole easy routine off.

E-6.30
A- 6.40-8.10
S-8.30
Y 8.30-9
E-9.30
A-9.40-11.30
S-11.50-12.20
And so on like that until nighttime where we start nighttime routine at 7 and in  it 7.30. I sometimes take her out in pram 1 to 2 hours where she'll nap on and off.

I'm new to this and not sure if I'm doing it right, if it's just the day 5 regression. I'm so disheartened by the fact naps are such a battleground, is this normal? Or is it just old habits are hard to change so it will take a while before naps are better?

I would also add she's bf and sometimes I top her up before nap, which I struggle to stop her falling asleep on me as I used to feed to sleep previously. I always feed before putting in cot at night but she's always awake so settles after 5 mins.

Any advice would be appreciated x

[Kellyjs]

Hi and welcome to the forums 

It sounds like you've made amazing progress so far, go you. It's really helpful when the dad's are on the same page too!

Ok, first off I think you're probably trying for a nap too early hun. I think she's protesting about being asked to go to sleep when she's not quite ready. 1.5hr A would be really an A time suitable for a 3mo   .

The book does say to watch out for cues, and what you're doing is great by watching her. This actually is really only suitable for the early days. Later on, not only to we have to watch them, we have to keep one eye on the clock too. They start showing tired cues if they're hungry or bored around now just to confuse us! They start to want to extend their A time so much from 4-8mths of age it is just crazy and hard for them to keep up, so we have to help them a little too.

I think we should start at a minimum of 2hrs 15mins. Wdyt? If you see this link here the A time can go up an hour in a month Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

Your wind down routine is perfect, and consistent, definitely have nothing to say about that. I would continue as you have been there, but perhaps just start it a little later? Maybe do the top up feed a little earlier, then start your wind-down routine? Do you want to try and perhaps keep me posted and we can take it from there?

We tend to work with just the first nap of the day to start with, but you'll probably find all the A times need to be somewhere nearer that point than 1.5hrs ok? Here to hold your hand. You've come so far already, I'm sure just a few minor tweaks and we'll have it sorted for you... Well until the next thing obviously  xx

[Rhubarbjam]

Thank you so much for your reply. As per your advice I stuck to an a time of 2 and 1/4 hours yesterday and although the naps were still short there was much less resistance. However we had an auful night going down no issues at 7.30 waking 8.40, 10.15, 1.15, 3.10, 4.40, 5.30 then 8.15 awake. We decided to only feed every 3 hours for now so between this just shh pat back. I must add that she is constipated and think this is playing a part making her so unsettled so gives a a bit of false result. I will post the easy from today once done as hopefully will be more accurate once she's more comfortable.

Also the reason I tried to put her down after 1 and half hours after waking was that she was falling asleep at breast when topping up (downstairs) and is doing the same thing as I type! This is 1 and half after waking. Should I just keep waking her up and keep her up till 2 ish hours are up  then it her down for a nap? After yesterday the 2 and quarter hours seemed to work ok with less protesting.

Also as her naps are only  30 min should I reduce her awake time between this?  Should I be persevering and try to shh pat when she wakes after half an hour, or do I just wait and see if they extend them self? She screams so much that's all its easier to get her up.

Thanks

[Kellyjs]

Argh, just lost my reply to you.

I was wondering if the naps are always 30mins when they're short hun? Any 45mins one in there at all?

I wonder if we keep the first A at 2hrs 15mins for a little while, if she continues to short nap perhaps reduce the second A down to 2hrs. I notice on the original routine you listed she went nearly 3hrs for her second A. I'm thinking maybe an UT nap followed by an OT one getting you into a pickle for the rest of the day.

I would persevere with the ssh/pat, however if it is really bothering her, perhaps try for 10 mins, if she's showing no chance of going back down, give up and try again for the next nap after 2hrs A ok?

I think last night you definitely had some OT NW's there. And I'm also thinking teething is at play considering she woke up so often. Have you checked inside her mouth at all? Xx

[Rhubarbjam]

Thank you again for getting back so swiftly, its good to be reassured when things get tough. Ill post the Easy for yesterday and then today so far.
28/10=
wake up 6.00, Eat
A-6.00-8.05 (wind down started at 8.05)
S-(5 mins to settle) 8.15-8.50 (35mins total)
E-8.50
then had to go out in car to shop briefly
A-850-10.20  (fell asleep in car seat, brought into house after 5 mins and stayed asleep)
s-10.20-11.14 (54 min nap)
E-11.20
A11.20-1.10(wind down started 1.10 as seemed really tired)
S-1.20-2.00 (40 min nap)
E-2.05
a 2.00- 4.00 (wind down started at 4.00 but took 30 mins to settle)
s-4.30-5.00 (30 min)
then bedtime 7.15

today so far 29/10
wake 8.00 eat
A-8.00-10.15 (attempted to put down at 10.15 after wind down, 20 min of shh pat then I left to go answer door and she continued to settle self no crying to left her minus a few shh past the door. finally fell asleep 45 mins after putting down on her own which is a massive first!!)
S-10.55-11.25
E-11.40
A-11.25-1.35(wind down started 1.35)
S-1.50-2.20 (30 mins but took only a couple of mins to fall asleep)
E-2.30
A 2.30-4.30
S-4.45 (settled on own again after 10 mins of fussing!)

This might look confusing but basically before 'id read your post i've tried to stick to 2 1/4 hour awake time (including a wind down of 5-10 mins so that she's in cot by the 2 1/14 hour point). She seems to settle easier but just wont go back over. Yesterday as you can see there were a 40 and 54 min (albeit in car seat) but took more persuasion to go over. Today she would fall asleep until her A time was around 3 hours which was a bit confusing. As for the NW i dont think she's teething (could be but could'nt see anything) but definately could be OT or  uncomfortable  (TMI) as were on day 12 of no number 2s (gp informed and its normal for her to go 7-9 days but not quite this long!) so i'm desperately wishing her to go so that i know its not that that's the issue but will keep an eye on this.

So ill see how tonight goes and try again  what you suggest tomorrow by trying to shh her through first wake of nap in the morning and see how she responds. And if not ill reduce her next A time to 2 hours as suggested and see how we go. she always seems like it takes her longer to settle for the 4pmish nap so think somewhere there's definitely an element of OT.

Its amazing how far we have come already considering she would only sleep on me for naps and night, wake as soon as put down and now she actually sleeps in her cot even though that still needs  tinkering with but thank you for your advice and support so far! After 5 sleep deprived months i just wish i'd started sooner!

[Kellyjs]

It is amazing how far you've both come hun, keep remembering that!

Yes, I think it might be a good idea and try and ssh/pat her over the transition. Maybe go in 5 mins earlier so you're ready for it?

I've asked for another opinion about the 12 days with no poo hun, I think that's quite concerning. Could definitely be why she's waking at night. Have you started solids recently? Is the constipation an ongoing thing or is this the first time? Xx

[lauradj]

Hi there!  Just responding to the no poops situations.  I am not an expert but that is quite a long time for an EBF baby to not poop.  My gf is a maternity nurse and she said they don't get concerned until it's been 10 days.  I would recommend you head back to the GP and ask for some suggestions and solutions.  She must be incredibly uncomfortable!

[Rhubarbjam]

Thanks for the advice. After I typed  that last msg I rang docs again and got her suppositories.  She still didn't seem concerned! We havnt started weaning as im scared it'll make it worse atm plus wanted to sort sleep out before introducing another factor. She only goes every 7-10 days since birth, it's just her odd way I think but it still makes me uneasy. She's well herself, happy enough, wet nappies though by date 12 was getting a bit antsy. But thats another story...Needless to say worked pretty much instantly and did their job so now she's hopefully more comfortable  once a few more days of routine ill update! Thanks again  x

[Kellyjs]

I too checked with a couple of mods on here hun. They too weren't too concerned as apparently with BM there's just not much waste. It's quite common apparently.. Well, we learn something new everyday is what I said! I'm glad she's feeling better though.

Look forward to hearing from you wrt the routines, at least we can rule that out as discomfort now eh? Xx