Night wakings every 1-2 hrs

[zissi]

I think she is OT as she acts the same when very tired for naps, like pulling her ears, burring her head, screaming. when she is UT she chats in the cot rather than cry.
our last couple of days were like this:
wake up 7:45
1st nap 10.45 - 12.40
2nd nap 16.00 - 16.20 this was OT, I tried to give her more A time today as I thought she may naps short due to being UT, tried to extend nap in the carrier, she closed her eyes a few times but I don't think she actually slept.
BT 6pm. screamed for 30mins until I eventually gave her the dummy, which I never do but I had to attend to my toddler too.

today:
wake up 7.25
1st nap 9.35 - 10.40 (she was very tired for some reason, had night waking of 1.25hrs)
2nd nap 1.25-2.30
CN 5-5-30pm
BT 6.30pm, still fighting sleep (OT) at 7.25

I start dreading BT I must say since its such a struggle. the strange thing is when we sleep trained the very first day she settled after 25 mins, although she must have been OT too. so I really don't understand whats going on...??

[Kellyjs]

Problem is, this is such a wide variation in the S time to BT isn't it? It's really hard to tell what's going on.

I do think an hour won't be enough like on day 2 you posted, even with a 30mi s CN. I'd expect probably closer to 1.5hrs would be better.

We're also expecting quite a bit of ONS there too aren't we? I wonder if that's contributing to the NW's. For example, on the second day you posted, with 3 naps, you're working on an 11hr day there which is definitely not enough at this age now. I would expect closer to 13hrs this late on in the transition. Not saying expend the last A by 2 hrs at all btw, just wondering how we can space your day better for you.

Does she regularly do a 12hr night? Or is that with the long NW's? When she has STTN, how long has it been for, do you remember? Sorry for all the questions, but I am thinking there's a UT/OT loop going on here xx

[zissi]

hey, thanks for your reply! whats ONS? I was advised here before that 1 hr after a 15 mins cat nap can be enough and she shows signs of being very tired. so I really don't know. and are you saying she should have a 13 hrs day with 3 naps? even though the 2 last naps are crap?
before we sleep trained she would do a 11 hrs night and 3 hrs nap and now it seems a 12hrs night or 13 depending if the night was bad and she tags on from the night wakings. she never slept through the night, since we sleep trained she gets a DF and 2 additional feeds which are fine for me.
so what do I do? often the CN happens so late that I cap it after 15 mins but since this sleep is so short she is still super tired and I feel an hour till BT is enough. she fights BT no matter if she had a long awake time or a short one. she goes down well for naps. I agree there is probably some UT somewhere as during the night wakings she chats away and doesn't really cry... any suggestions?

[Kellyjs]

ONS is over night sleep.

Yes an hour could be fine after a 15mins CN but probably not after a 30mins one  .

So what we do know is that for the first A 3hrs works well doesn't it? Let's set that there and worry about the second A where I think things are going a little haywire for you.

I actually think she could do somewhere close to 3hrs for her second A too. On that day you did 2hrs 45mims A after an hour nap and that resulted in another hour long nap which we'll promise is a little UT. So after a long first nap we know 3hrs 20mins is too much as she had an OT nap in there we think. So how about we try 3hrs for her second one too and hold it?

If we do this and the final 3hrs to BT it will take us really close to the sample routines which doesn't suit all bubbas. It may be that we have to tweak things some more, but we're looking at the pattern based on your bubba and not just sample routines. What we don't know if 3hrs A last thing will be too much or too little for her if she does take a decent nap in the afternoon.

I think our plan should be if that second nap is an hour or thereabouts, try for a 15mins CN and BT one hour later. If the nap is 1.5hrs or over, shoot for 3hrs A to BT and let's see how we go ok?

So something like this:
Wu say 7.30
A 3hrs
S 10.30-12.30
A 3hrs
S 3.30- 5 (hopefully)
A 3hrs
BT 8

We will need to hold it for 3 days and see if a pattern emerges ok? Wdyt? Xx

[zissi]

yeah most times we have an hr to BT after a 15 mins nap but since this didn't really work I tried on saturday a 30 mins nap to see if she would go down better.
yesterday worked really well as we had 2 good naps:
WU 7.25
1st nap 10.20 - 11.45
2nd nap 2.40 - 3.15
BT 6.15, she settled within 5 mins.
so she can def do a full A time after a decent nap, problem is that the 2nd nap often isn't good.I will try and aim for about 3 hrs, a bit less maybe. however we did have a long night waking again after this good day, NW was 1.5 hrs. maybe I have to give it a few days?

I think our plan should be if that second nap is an hour or thereabouts, try for a 15mins CN and BT one hour later. If the nap is 1.5hrs or over, shoot for 3hrs A to BT and let's see how we go ok?

your plan sounds good, will try this the next few days...

the sample you posted wouldn't work I don't think as LO only needs 14 hrs sleep app. will try anyway and see how it goes... thanks a million!

[Kellyjs]

My pleasure. Keep with it. I do think that second nap might need to be pushed out a tad more, but you're definitely heading int  he right direction!  xx

[zissi]

ok we had 3 days of early BT around 6/6.20 which went well in terms of getting her down. However the last 2 days she has been OT so waking after BT every 30 mins. she also continues to have a long NW of 1.5hrs +. I decided not to do a CN as it would have been only around 5.45pm or so andI simply didn't fancy struggling with getting her down again an hr later. her day is only 11 hrs and ONS is 13hrs minus the NW. do you think that could be the problem? a good nap is seldom more than 1.5 hrs  and often the other nap is short, so the day has to be short unless we have a cn. so difficult this whole sleep business...

[Kellyjs]

It is difficult isn't it?? Rock and a hard place comes to mind. You need to give her the opportunity to catch up on missed sleep from the nap but she doesn't seen to want to sleep more than 11hrs ONS.

Have you tried pushing out that second nap at all? It does look like she's ready for staggered A times in that the first one is obviously good but that second one always yields a short nap with the same A time. I'd add at least 15mins onto that second one if you can?? Xx

[zissi]

I have figured that she can do now longer than 3 hrs A time.so the last couple of days she had an A time of 3.10ish which sometimes led to a good nap of 1.20 (usually not longer) and sometimes to a short one of 30/35 mins. we had a CN of 20 mins the last couple of days which pushed BT out to 7.30 and we didn't have long NW (just the usual 1 or 2 for feeding). However she got up at 6, I guess I can't have it all  the thing is we are losing now on overall sleep, the night is only 10.5 hrs and naps only 2.5, thats an hour less than her usual 14 hrs. but maybe it will take a few days to settle.
today was like this:
WU 6.10
1st nap 9.20 - 10.05
2nd nap 12.45 - 3pm (I put her down early due to the short 1st nap)
BT 6.40 (she was in the cot at 6.20 which probably was a bit too late, hence it took her a while to settle...
will see what the night brings...

[Kellyjs]

Well it's good to know she can do 2hrs 45mins A after a short nap and that gets you a good nap in! Amazing in fact, keep that one in mind for future! There are always *bad days but actually this was a good amount of sleep in total for the day yk? And we learned about the second A tim too. Hope the night goes well xx