I just can't fix it. 10 months and I don't know what else to try.

[beth33]

I used to blame my DD's poor sleep on the way she was was dragged around after her older brother to groups, therapy sessions, and doctor's appointments. Now he's in preschool and I'm able to cater to her routine/schedule a lot more, but I haven't seen as much improvement in her sleep as I expected. There are three main problems: short naps, night waking, and early wake ups in the am.

There's a lot of variability in her sleep. I put her down for two naps a day. Sometimes she'll take naps that go more than an hour, but usually they're no more than 50 minutes, and sometimes as short as 20 minutes. If one of her naps is more than one hour the other tends to be no more than one cycle. On a really bad day, she might only take two 20 minute naps.

She will sometimes sleep through the night, but usually wakes at least once and often 2-3 times. When she wakes up I do PD until she falls back asleep unless it's 5:30 or later. I've found at that point PD doesn't seem to work then (I usually give it 10-15 minutes at that hour - if she doesn't start to settle by then, she usually doesn't settle at all). I think she might be too hungry to sleep by then. When I give up on getting her to sleep and give her the first nursing of the day, about half of the time she falls back to sleep while nursing.

Here's the most "typical" day for her. Typical's in quotes because there's really no such thing. I give her solids about an hour after BF. I've only recorded the BF below.

WU 4 am (PD 20 minutes till fall back to sleep)
S    4:20-5:30 (Try PD for 15 min then give up as she screams virtually the whole time)
E    5:45-6:00 (BF on one side)
S    6:00-6:40 (Getting DS up for school tends to wake her)
E    6:50-6:55 (BF on the other side)
A    6:40-10
S    10-10:50
E    10:50-11:10
A    11:10-3
S    3-3:50
E    3:50-4:10
A    4:10-7:40
E    7:40-7:55
S    8:10

I doubt she's under tired when I put her down for a nap. Sometimes she'll fall asleep nursing right after waking up from a nap. I don't think she's ready to to transition to one nap yet. I've worked hard to avoid accidental parenting and I've rarely resorted to props to lull her to sleep. I've tried PD to extend naps or get her to go to sleep in the morning, and it virtually never works. (PD does work on night wakings.) I use a white noise machine to try to drown out external noise. Most recently I've tried to go by both routine and the clock as she does seem to be sensitive to changes in schedule, not just routine. (Ex. I try to not put her down till 10 even if she wakes up extra early, because she virtually never sleeps for more than a cycle if she goes down any earlier.) When I was going strictly by routine, I was giving her a 3.5 hour wake time.

Any advice on what needs to change or what else I can try so she can take decent naps and sleep through the night?

She's had cold after cold, is already walking, and has 5 teeth. There's a chance that she's just had a lot of disturbances to her sleep and once spring hits and she stops getting bad colds and teething so much, she'll settle down. Do I just wait it out and see what happens?

She actually fell asleep eating breakfast in her high chair this morning. Why can she sleep when I'm feeding her oatmeal but not go back to sleep at 5:20 when I'm doing PD? The poor thing is exhausted, I'm exhausted, and I don't know what to try next.

[Kellyjs]

Oh my, poor you. You've obviously got a lot going on there 

I wonder if you've actually got a bit of OT going on there? That's an awfully long day for you both isn't it? Perhaps she's going down for her first nap UT then OT is creeping on later int he day with all those yucky naps.

So let's take one thing at a time for you. If she was OT there would be a chance she'd go back to sleep. If she's trying to go back to sleep whilst nursing a little while later it could be that the A times are close.

There are awful sleep disturbances when a LO starts walking. But let's start at the beginning for you and take each day as it comes, record it for me. Then we can work through it ok? An average day you posted is great to see, but actually it's more helpful to hear what's happening in real time if that's ok?

So you were working off 3.5hrs first A? But rather working with set times am i right? We could try the set nap route but I want to see how the next two days pan out in order to find the right times for you. So, in short, I'm saying this won't be a quick fix. But I'm here with you and we'll work it out together.

Let's try first nap at 10.15am tomorrow, does that sound ok? Do everything you've been doing so far at 5am. Tell her your sleepy phrase and make it clear it's still nighttime. Stay in her room if she gets upset. Then when 6.30am comes along, walk out the room, turn the ights on and make a big song and dance about the fact it's morning. Can you do that for me? Even if you just get to 6am, that's fine. Let me know how it goes? xx

[beth33]

Thank you, Kellyjs! You're very kind.

I'm happy to post real time routines. Here's what she did today. I've recorded most of her feedings, naps, and nighttime sleep routines since she was born, so if you want any other days let me know.

WU 3:40 (obviously a night waking. PD 3:40-3:55)
S    3:55-5:20 (Enlisted DH's help. He tried to get her back to sleep from 5:20-5:45. Almost settled but worked herself back up.)
E    5:45-6 (nursed on one side)
S    6-7
A    7-10:20
E    7:45-7:50 (nursed on other side after I got older bro off to school in vanpool.)
S    10:20-11:35 (YAY!)
E    11:35-11:50
A    11:50-3:15
S    3:15-3:55 (I didn't try to put her back down as this was a convenient wake time for an afternoon activity we had scheduled for today)
E    3:55-4:15
A    4:15-8:15
S    8:15-?

I am not necessarily trying for a schedule per say, but I am trying to have more fluid A times to allow her to go down around the same time. For example, I'd love it if she slept till 6:30 or 7 each day and then went down for her nap around 10 or 10:30, using a 3.5 hour A time. Recently, if she wakes up for the day at 6 am, I've been trying to make her first nap as close to 10 am as I can, even though that means something closer to a 4 hour A time. Conversely, if she slept till 7:30 (hasn't happened in a while!) I'd try to get her to nap as close to 10:30 as reasonably possible, even though the A time would be closer to 3 hours.

I'll do PD till 6 or 6:30, depending on when she wakes up and how she's reacting to it, and then have my MIL put her down for her nap at 10:15 (she's babysitting tomorrow so I can volunteer in DS's classroom), and give you an update.

[Kellyjs]

A 4hr A time is not totally crazy for a 10mo at all.

What I do wonder if she's treating that 6-7am sleep as a nap iykwim? So actually she's doing closer to 3hrs 20mins first A which is average for an 8mo. But not unreasonable of an A after a 1hr 'nap' yk?

So the day you posted below actually isn't too bad if we take in consideration many LO's at this age have one longer nap and one shorter one to fit them into the day. Also your length of day isn't bad either for a bubba further down the 2-1. That being said, I think that last A is far too long after a short nap. I'm thinking that might be our issue here. Both days you've posted have a 4hr last A after a short nap so I'm thinking this is the norm.

So what I want to do if you're willing is to better balance the day for you? Keep as you have been doing for the EW as I mentioned before, but let's shift your day a little so that last A isn't so long.

We can definitely keep to A times than set nap, of course I just thought that's what you were trying to do with the first nap, sorry I read it wrong  .

Ok, so I's like to add on a little more A to the first one if I can? Do 3hrs 45mins. She might get grumpy, but a change of scenery or a snack might help. I'll write it out in easy format for you if that's easier.. so this is what i'm thinking..

wu stupid o'clock.. do your resettling 
Actual wu 7
A 3hrs 45
S 10.45- say 12
A 3hrs 45 (same as before)
S 3.45-4.30
A 3hrs
BT 7.30

WDYT? It will take some tweaking, but if we can try something liek this for a couple of days, hopefully we can see a pattern emerge? xx

[beth33]

You've really given this a lot of thought. Thank you! I think that you must be magic, Kellyjs, because she's been sleeping better these past couple of days than she has in a while and I've definitely had more success getting her to go back to sleep. Maybe she knows I really mean it now when I do PD, because she's been responding better to it and actually going back to sleep a lot of the time when I use it, even in the "later" morning and after naps!

BTW, I love the "stupid o'clock" placeholder. That's definitely what it feels like when I hear her starting to wake in the early hours of the am!

Thanks for your perspective on the short nap / long nap. I was working on the assumption that I needed to get both naps to more than one cycle, and it's good to know that her short/long pattern might not be problematic. Trying a 3h45m A time sounds reasonable.

Here's how she did yesterday.

WU 5:40 (PD for 10 min)
S    5:50-6:15
A    6:15-10:15
S    10:15-11:10, tried PD till 11:30
A    11:30-3
S    3-3:40, 3:42-4:30 (she woke briefly between cycles an fussed for a min, but never stood up and went back to sleep)
A    4:30-8:20
S    8:20

Here's how she's doing so far today:

WU 5 (I only had to put her down once and she resettled. Amazing!)
S    5:05-6 (again, all it took was one put down and she resettled and went to sleep)
A    6:40-? (I'll aim for 10:30)

I'll try this for the next couple of days, and hopefully things will continue to improve. DD will have to nap at her cousin's birthday party on Saturday so that might be a bit of a setback, but I'll cross my fingers that it doesn't throw things too much.

I really, REALLY appreciate your help and time!

[Kellyjs]

Honestly, that's what I'm here for so don't worry. I just feel for you. We have all had those times when we feel so let down in ourselves and can't really see the wood for the trees. It's this place that's magic, not me! 

Nope two long naps, I think would be unreasonable for her atm given her A times. Well, some prefer two long naps and a really long day, but I like my wine before 9pm! And your day is long enough as it is!

Yes, please do keep with it another day or two ok? We will need to tweak it again, i'm sure. But once we can see a definite pattern with these set ish A times, it'll be easier to tell what we need to do.

And I'm sure she is picking up on your new-found no-nonsense attitude! They do sense a lot yk, but also once you have a set plan in your head, I find it easier to just get on and implement it rather than just having this dazed and confused look about us like we haven't got a clue what we're doing   . Who said we have to fake it till we make it?! Keep me posted ok? I forgot to say, there may be a slight regression day 3 or 4, but it gets better after that. That generally applies to weaning props as BF to sleep etc, but I have noticed it in some pu/pd cases. I think they like to double check we're serious this is the new way of doing things  . In any case, if it happens, don't worry! xx