9 week old 4am awake

[briela83]

Looking for some advice. My 9 week old does really well at night, but wakes at 4am and we can't seem to get her back to sleep. She goes to bed between 8 and 830 and is starting to just settle herself. For a while she was between waking at 1am and then not again until 630. But other times she would sleep right until 4, and it looks like we are going back down that road again.
She had about 3-4 naps through the day. At night we established a routine quickly but through the day, she geneeally naps AROUND the same time every day. Naps are usually about 45 mins to an hour...very rarely are they longer.

Is there something I can do to try and get her past that 4am mark? This morning I eventually settled her by nursing her to sleep which I don't usually do. But then she was up again at 530. It's just like she's not tired after that long sleep.

I tried a dreamfeed once and it completely threw her off and she was up almost every hour, so I'm not too keen on trying that again. She wasn't swaddled when I did it (she not a fan of swaddling) so maybe that's why she woke up so many times that night.

I'm starting to incorporate more of a routine through the day, but I would like to get her staying in her room until Atleast 7am, and then start our day. Am I expecting too much by thinking she should go 8 to 8...with one or possibly two waking during that time. Help please! I'm trying to nab this before it becomes a habit for her.
Thank you!

[weaver]

Are you feeding her when she wakes? At 4 am or another time?

[briela83]

Hi
Yes I'm feeding her, but she doesn't seem to settle down afterwards. I don't talk or anything when I go in so she doesn't think it's play time. I fed her once this morn, and then when she wouldn't settle I ended up feeding her again and she eventually fell asleep but not for long.
It's like her body thinks it's a nap because she basically sleeps for a sleep cycle and is up

[becj86]

Is she BF? If so, you'll have a lot more milk at that 4am feed than you do for any other feed and she may have trouble coping with the flow, so gulp in lots of air which then gurgles around in her tummy and causes gas pains.

[briela83]

Yes I bf but she doesn't seem overly gulpy while nursing. When we put her down she just fusses. She use to have quite bad gas but after many chiropractic visits it seems to be under control now. It's just a cry...like come and pay attention to me! I'm hoping she will just go longer and longer each night as that's what she has done building up to this 4am.
I go to bed quite early so I'm still getting an adequate amount of sleep but it's still tough getting up at 4am and staying up! 
Perhaps I will try the 9pm bedtime or even if 830 and see if that makes a dideference.

I had wondered if she was sleeping too much through the day,  but she seems to always be yawning so I dont think that's the case.

[weaver]

Will you post your daytime routine please? She's very little right now, and still learning about day and night I wouldn't rush to bump her BT later, in older babies early waking is v often linked to being overtired!

[briela83]

This is approx as I've just started this program and was a bit stressed today so forgot to write some things down!

Generally it goes ..and this is all approx
Wake/Feed 630 am
7am finishes feeding
Activity 7am-745
Sleep 745/8 ish ..usually last about 45-50 Mins but she can't seem to get past that first sleep cycle and wakes up crying.
845-9am wake/eat
9 -930 eat
930 to 10am activity
Today I spent 10 to 11 trying to get her to nap (will only nap on me but that's a whole other topic!)
Got her down at 1115 and she slept until about 130pm
130 -2 eat
2 to 3 activity
3/315 -4 nap
Eat 4-430
Activity 430 to 5
And at the moment my husband is trying to put her down for nap.
Naps are generally 45 mins and like I said...i can't seem to get her past that, except for today when she slept for an hour and a half or so but I should note that today a friend was rocking her when she went past the 45 mins. When I do that it doesn't seem to work
Every night our bedtime routine starts at 8pm. I feed her and then she goes in her crib. Sometimes my husband has to go in and settle her once or twice but generally she drifts off happily on her own.
 

[briela83]

I meant to note that she was sleeping from 8pm to 130am and then again until 630 am. Now it's moved until 4am and she thinks that's her wake time. She has done this 4am before and it shifted back to 130/2ish for some reason. Now we are back to 4am.

[becj86]

She has done this 4am before and it shifted back to 130/2ish for some reason

Probably a growth spurt - this will keep happening

Just so you're aware, A time is all the time from eyes open to eyes closed, so her A times are actually around 1.5hr for the most part, that could possibly be dialled back a bit to say 1:15 but it will creep back to 1.5hr within the next 2-3 weeks anyway. At this age, you really want to aim for a night of about 12hr, so if WU is around 7am, BT should be around 7pm.

[briela83]

I wonder if it is a growth spurt. She would not settle last night. Would nearly fall asleep in our arms but as soon as we laid her down she would be crying within 2 Mins. This went on for 3 hours. I eventually brought her into our room where she slept on and off for 3 hrs. Eventually I trsnsferred her back into her own room around 3 and she fell asleep there.

If you don't mind me asking what is the average a baby her age should nap? She is sleeping on me as I type this and has been sleeping for almost 2 hrs now. Better than her usual 45 mins

With regards to the 7pm bedtime...I'm worried that if I do that she will get up at 3am instead of 4am and I won't be able to get her back to sleep. Should I gradually move to 7pm in 15 minute increments?

[FPT23]

Yes I'm interested in this topical well! Thank you! My 6 week old does the same if he wakes to feed around the 4-5 am mark! He is also BF!

If I may add in additional question:
When they do this and are in and out of "consistent" sleep or keep waking etc, when would you just get up to start the day? And if so, when would the first nap be? ....I've noticed on nights like these, the morning nap is out the door due to OT I would assume. Takes forever to get down, once down he wakes constantly never exceeding the 30 min mark, and I either have to try and get back down (which can take a bit) and if he takes too long I just keep him up distracted as I have breakfast and pre school for the other toddler. I attempt again after breakfast etc...(sometimes successful and stays down longer than first attempts) After dropping off toddler in school, I come back and work on another nap, which takes forever to get him down again (jolting awake often, very OT and OS by this time) but when he's down he's out for 2hrs or more if I let him!

Any advice for us ❤️❤️❤️

[becj86]

I found waking that hour earlier, eg. 3am instead of 4am made it easier to put DS back to sleep. I was more determined at 3am than 4am and DS was used to sleeping at that hour. I also eventually worked out that his body clock worked better going to bed earlier and he'd sleep longer in the morning.

Naps at 9 weeks old are pretty variable, if you're getting the night and one nap in the crib, you're doing well. Its unusual for a baby of this age to go to sleep completely on their own - often they need shush/pat after being put into the crib drowsy, often they rouse at 30 or 45min into the nap and then need shush/pat to get back to sleep. Its easiest to get them back to sleep and help them learn to make it through the sleep cycle transition if you're there when LO rouses rather than waiting til baby's screaming and upset. Sometimes white noise can help the length of nap - think how noisy a belly sounds if you put your head on someone's chest/belly - think about the constant noise of your heartbeat and your gut, etc. that LO's been listening to for almost her entire life - she's comfortable and feels safe and secure when she's on your chest.

Could well be a growth spurt, only way to get through that is to feed Could also be pain/discomfort - gas/reflux an issue?

WRT getting up and starting the day - that depends on you. I got up at 5am but that was me, I was comfortable doing that. Others aren't. Just keep in mind that keeping it quiet and dark, not interacting with LO and keeping them relaxed and resting is an idea if you can't get them to sleep. A time is all the time from eyes open to eyes closed, so if LO is up for more than 1:15 to 1:30 at this age, they'll be OT and struggle to sleep. If you have to have LO nap out and about, a carrier/wrap or a pram can work - its more important to get the sleep than to have all naps in a cot or at a particular time.

EAS is a routine, its just a sequence of events so life is more predictable for you and baby, its not a schedule.

[briela83]

I'm glad there are others in the same boat!
Last night we went back 1:15 wake and then back down by 139. Then up again at 6. I tried to put her down again but she wasn't having it. So I fed her and my husband brought her out.
I guess it's normal for a baby this age to have 8 or 9 hour nights?  I want to put her to bed earlier but I'm afraid of her waking up at 3am and not being able to put her down again cause she's had basically a full sleep at that point. Make me nervous!!
In the book is says at 3 months they start sleeping more...10-12 hours if I remember correctly. What I would essentially like to see is her be in her room for 12 hours. So down at 7 or 8 and in her room until 7 or 8.
For naps. ..we managed 2 short naps in her crib yesterday but that's a start. Still doing the morning one on me because I want her to get that restorative sleep for the first nap and I can shush her back to sleep when she's with me 

Side note...sleep training can be very overwhelming cause half the time I have no clue what I'm doing or what stage I should be doing it at!! I read 3 mths Is a good time to start but I'm always so unsure. I guess I'm not the only mom who second guesses herself with all this sleep stuff!

[FPT23]

Yes we are all in this together!

I get you! I'm currently struggling with a normal BT! Some nights he's out by 7-8pm but then at nights he's harder to settle when he wakes up! Just last night he knocked out at 7:30pm and would've kept sleeping. I took it upon myself to wake and feed around 9-10pm and he sorta ate.... But woke at midnight and didn't sleep until 2am. I might have messed up waking him but I don't go to bed at 7pm! The wake up didn't help extend us to our usual night feed. It's so confusing, I hear you.

I think you have to just roll with it- keep in mind that when their ready, it will come. That gets me through the days sometimes

[becj86]

IME, if you keep BT early enough, most babies will do a 12hr night from the beginning (of course with more wakings, I mean into bed at 7 and up for the day at 7 for example).

These links may be helpful in understanding what's happening developmentally:
SLEEP FACTS