Great sleeper now terrible. 28 weeks

[josephfc]

Hello. My daughter is 28ish weeks and was once a fab sleeper. I'vebeen here before during growth spurts and nudged A time and found the right balance again after a week or so so I thought that's what we were dealing with. But now we're having problems again and it has been going for over two weeks.

We started to push for a 3 hour A time and at 2h50 it wasn't too bad. We still only had 40m naps but no big deal. Then a few days before the clocks changed she started acting fussy at 2h. The clocks changed and messed her up then she started teething and new we can't get her back at all. I've tried a 2h30 A because she starts rubbing and ear pulling at 2 but she fights it. I've tried keeping her up until 3h but she cries hysterically as the routine starts. She needs rocking to sleep now which we never did before.

Our routine was solid for naps and bedtime, sleeping bag, story, songs, lay down and asleep in minutes. When we started getting problems we made the 5 minute wind down a bit longer because she was really pepped up when we laid her down. Even now no matter when we put her in the cot she is either really excitable or or frantically crying and only rocking will settle her.

Sometimes we can walk with her until she's almost asleep and lay her down but other times she has to be asleep or she wakes up cryong again.

How can I get her back on track? Is it an extended growth spurt or have we APd to the point she is accustomed to it? And what should her A time be? I think 6 months is around 3h but despite the previous 2h50 now I can't get her there.

Our routine was really solid until the troubles. Here's what we're having today minute:

W 630
S 925-1005 rocked
S 1-220 (first long nap in ages. Had to rock because she was hysterical. I'd tried at 1220)

She cried through the routine no matter when I take her so I'm a bit perplexed. And she's waking 40m into bedtime so I'm sure there's that 6 month dependency thing going on (can't remember what it's called). Is this salvageable?

Thank you.

[jessmum46]

My second was a really bad teether so my first thought would be to ask what you are doing in terms of managing teething discomfort/pain?  Obviously we all have our different levels of comfort with giving medications but if mine were struggling with sleep and I knew they were teething I did try some meds 30 mins or so before naps and bedtime to see if it made a difference.  And to be honest it often did when they were in the thick of it.

How are her nights apart from that 40 minute wake up?

3h A sounds about right for this age though if nights aren't great and she is teething then you may find she needs a shorter first A for now.  Have you tried a nap at the 2h point when she first gets fussy just out of interest? 

[josephfc]

Hello. It's all a bit of guess work really. Her teeth are fully through now but she is even worse. In fact we didnt know the teeth were coming until she bit me. It was after they came through that she got grumpy. Until then she was just fighting sleep.

Last night she went to bed early because she fought the last nap so was asleep by 630 pm. She slept until 545am and went straight back to sleep after I laid her next to me in bed. Slept until 645 and cried solidly from 740-9 when she fell asleep on the school run. Woke up 940 and then screamed from 1015-1040 and went to sleep in the car. Once she woke from that nap she was perfect, no tears and back to herself.

She woke from her last nap at 415 and went to sleep happily on her own at 710pm but woke crying at 8ish I just said shh once and she went straight back to sleep.

I'm not convinced it's teething pain but I have tried Ashtons powder which the pharmacist recommended and Bonjela but to no effect. We went to the doctor today and she has swollen glands so she's fighting something but other than the on off crying and the lump she isn't showing any signs of being ill.

If I try a nap at 2 hours I get tears and fighting until around about the 2h40 mark. But she's been jiggled about so much by then she's bound to fall asleep.

I'm finding it takes me a really long time to get her to sleep of I put her down at the grumpy 2h mark. But if I keep her up until closer to 3 she goes to sleep quickly although not on her own. Maybe it's just teething meets clock change meets poorliness. My instincts from previous problems is she needs an A push but illness maybe is getting in the way of it.

She woke up at 545 again this morning with a 710 bedtime. Again she fell asleep in our bed until 650. My husband also had to get up to her in the night and shh her to sleep.
Sorry bit if a rant, I can't make sense of it all.

[josephfc]

OK today has been a mixed bag but a significant improvement has been made.

Woke at 545 and back to sleep in our bed unfortunately.

Woke 650
S 945-1035 (was going to sleep longer but I woke her up by accident, was really fussy and cried when I left the room. Fell asleep on cot with me sushing)
S 1230-120 on me (she was really fussy from 1150 and just fell asleep on me)
S 410 (she fell asleep on her own in the cot with a normal wind down!)

We've definitely found an improvement but she has been very grumpy at stages. Do you think it's possible there's separation anxiety developing? She falls asleep much easier if we're in the room with her and is demanding a lot of attention which she never see to.

[jessmum46]

I think if she's not 100% then your instinct that teething meets illness meets a bit of SA starting (it's possible) is probably right, and I would just hang in there a little longer and see if it settles on its own x

[josephfc]

Thank you. It's just worrying that she becomes reliant on the rocking and APing! She has got past it before though. Fingers crossed.

[jessmum46]

If she's done it before she will do it again x

[josephfc]

Eek, so still not much success here. We had 2 days where she slept independently for the first nap but no others or evening. But now we're back to lots of fussing, head and face rubbing and crying.

We also have a wake up between 540 and 610 every day. She's clearly still tired and I do everything to get her back to sleep but she really fights it. Sometimes she goes and on those days we get a decent first nap from her. But if she doesn't it's trouble all day.

She has a 715/730 set bed time and I'm always aiming for a 3h first A (we're now 7 months). But I can't seem to fix the early waking or the loss of independent sleep. I need the first nap after 9am because of the school run so regardless of wake up I'm going for a 915/930 first nap (not much o can do about it unfortunately)

Here's our day:

610 W
915 -950 S
1230-1 S
Last nap is tough we try 4, usually goes at about 445-515
Bedtime 715 attempt 730 after fighting

Please give me some idea of how to fix early waking, and A times! I have no idea if she's OT or UT any more.

[josephfc]

I forgot to mention today was 540 wake up. I tried nap at 835 (no school) and at 905 I'm still at it.

[josephfc]

Hello. I'd really appreciate some help working out my daughters routine please. I'm back to work in 5 weeks and don't want to leave her with no routine or structure to help grandparents look after her. And I don't want to spend the precious last few days I have with her locked in this battle. She was such a happy little sleeper and now she won't settle for anything. Thanks in advance.

[jessmum46]

Am I right she's about 7 months now?  I think you probably now need to aim for a two nap routine, and I wonder if trialling set naps may help?  Just thinking from grandparents perspective and from point of view of school runs having some planned nap times might make life easier on you all and help her to regulate things a little? 

So the theory goes you set nap times based on a reasonable routine for her age and reasonable A times.  You then stick to those times regardless of nap length or wake up, only adjusting 15 mins or so early if she is really struggling.

If you wanted to give it a try I'd probably do something like a set first nap at 9.15/30 and a set second nap around 1/1.30pm.  If both are a total disaster you could throw in the catnap on the odd day or two to get through to bedtime.  What do you think?

The other thing I thought is whether perhaps if sleep has been rough for a while you need to offer her some early bedtimes for a bit?

[josephfc]

Aaah thank you so much for replying! We're having a hard few days and I'm so grateful for the response thank you!

I've been trying for set nap times recently and I think it's probably the way to go. My worry is she isn't settling herself to sleep any more. I always think it's down to OT but have a strange feeling she's UT (especially after a cat nap). Either way, she kicks her legs violent and is doing this odd deep wail and head scratching when I try to settle her. I'm wondering if it's a bit of a mantra cry. But she is really struggling to settle herself now and she never used to. PU/PD doesn't work, she just acts wide awake and starts giggling and babbling and leg flapping. But when she's in the cot her eyes are closed and she's wailing and rubbing her cozy into her face.

It's so hard to work out what's going on with her after being so settled. But thank you, I'll give the set naps a go. Do you think it's likely we'll have a few tough days (weeks) but eventually she'll settle in to the set nap?

Thank you thank you for replying!!

[jessmum46]

You're welcome, and I'm sorry for the delay in the previous reply

Glad to know that you came to a similar conclusion regarding set naps   I think with more than one carer in the mix it can really help.  Usually you would try and stick to it for a week or so to set LOs body clock, and then if you need to adjust something take it from there.  Note that 'set' naps doesn't mean 'stays the same forever', it will still need to move and adjust a little as LO gets older.  But (for example) that could be second nap moving a touch later if LO starts to be UT for it or starting to cap the first nap to keep the second at a reasonable time.  Does that make sense? 

Just remind me - how are you settling her right now?  It may be if you can get the routine to 'bed in' a bit with some AP then you can work on sleep training.  What do you think?

[josephfc]

Well up until we had the troubles we would do sleeping bag, take to bedroom, read a story, sing a few songs and lay her in her cot. She'd just go straight over on her own. Now we do the same routine but she gets so hyped up and when we lay her in the cot she starts crying. We try rubbing her head a bit and sometimes that works. But if she starts crying hard, which is more and more frequently (in the last 5 days it's every nap and bedtime) we pick her up to try and settle her.

Tonight was awful. She woke 510, came to our bed and slept until 610. I tried routine and bed for 915 and she wasn't going to sleep at all. She didn't seem tired and was really hyped up so I brought her out of bed. We had to go out after that and she napped on the go all day (sleeping well in the car).

Her last nap was 320-4 so I went with a 7pm bedtime but over shot slightly. As soon as I took her to bed she was kicking and being really active. The routine didn't calm her at all. From 710 inlaid her in the cot and she just screamed hysterically. I couldn't run her head to settle her so I picked her up and she kept crying. As soon as I laid her down she cried hysterically. In the end my husband settled her to almost asleep and then laid her down. So we're stuck in a rocking to settle situation. We haven't had to rock her to sleep ever (except brief growth spurts). I'm really upset we've undone all the good we had from day one.

I think I should aim for a 630 bedtime if she's waking up at 610. But I don't know how we can settle her. She is just too active now.

[jessmum46]

(((Hugs))) sounds like she was OT by bedtime doesn't it?

I'm not sure, but I wonder if a little change in your thought process from 'have to settle her' to 'allow her to settle' might help?  As LOs get bigger they are often better off with us doing less to settle them, so maybe you just need to be there for her with soothing words and a touch if needed, rather than feel it's your job to 'make' her go to sleep?  I don't know, just rambling probably!  She is at quite a typical age for separation anxiety right now, we had a hideous time with DD around this age taking up to an hour of screaming to go to bed.  Do you notice any signs in the day? 

If you're going with the idea of set naps then you do need to commit to them consistently for a good week at least to get them 'set'.  So that would mean taking her in at the same time every day, and persisting in settling her to sleep for a good 45 mins at her designated 'nap' time.  Then if no nap happens (as can sometimes occur when starting out with a new routine or sleep training), ideally you should keep her up until her next planned nap  time and try again then.  It's tough though and can result in OT quite quickly, not all babies will get along with it, but then again you can end up OT with any routine!