4hr EASY transition for 5 month old

[Alexian28]

Yes he can: he does it at night and sometimes at daycare he gets 1.15-2 hr naps. Ugh he's so difficult. I guess since I just keep reading that 45 min naps means ot/ut/overstimulated/etc that I assume there is something to "fix". I'll keep trying the feed at 4am wu for awhile and see how he does. I can tolerate the 45 min naps if he'd just sleep till a decent hour. With the 4am feed today he's getting his last cup at 730pm, an hour later than usual so maybe in time it'll help.

[becj86]

I think pushing that first nap as late as you can will help with the WU time.

[Alexian28]

By feeding him at 430 aren't I just reinforcing a habitual wakeup? It takes an hour to resettle him and he just takes his usual 45min nap. I'm totally with pushing the first nap and I understand the goal.

[becj86]

No, you're feeding a hungry baby. Once he gets used to going back to sleep and realises he's not getting another nap early in the morning, the theory is that he will then extend that morning sleep post-NW.

[Alexian28]

Reporting back: I did w2s for a few days and got him mostly past the 4:30 am wake up after feeding him just got him riled up. He's still waking super early between 500-515. I leave him in bed till he starts to fuss, never goes back to sleep on his own (spirited babies are exhausting!j. I've read this is super common at this age. Should I just ride it out? He's taking 3 1h naps at school. At home on the weekends I can get better naps by resettling sometimes. Average daycare day is:

515 wu
6 sippy cup
7 solids
8-9 nap (on really good days 745-9)
10 sippy cup
12-1 nap
2 sippy cup
330-430 nap
630 sippy cup
715 bt
1030 df

He just turned 6 months old. He's been trying solids for about 1.5 weeks. Tried 2 meals for a couple of days and he spit up a lot so I'm backing down to 1 for now. ("Meal" is 1tbsp puree.). He's only had avocado and squash. No change in sleep with solids.

[becj86]

Are those nap times set by daycare? At 6months, average A time would be around 3hr, so its entirely reasonable for him, really, to be waking at 5 if he's getting his first nap at 8 - if they can shift it later, that might help.

[Alexian28]

Nope they aren't set, just when he gets tired. He's not always asleep right at 8, sometimes 815. Do we need to try to shift his entire day a bit and push bt back?

It's so difficult to get this all figured out when he's at daycare.

[becj86]

I would try pushing naps to 9 and 2, say, and see if his naps increase in length - then BT can probably still be at 6:30 or so and he may sleep a little later in the AM. Will nursery resettle if he naps 30min? Might be worth starting that 9 and 2 set naps at home on the weekend and resettle the 30min wakings (they're likely) and by the Monday, he is likely to be ok.

[Alexian28]

I have no confidence he'll make it that long. He's exhausted by 8, fussy, and falls asleep in 2 seconds but I can try. When will he eat then? He currently eats at 10 and 2. If i try to keep him up that long I'll have a screaming meltdown kid on my hands.

He woke at 4:20am today just spent a half hour trying to resettle him and he still isn't asleep. So now we're going to have a 420am to 730pm day. I just don't get it. I need WEEKS with him at home all day to try to sleep train him and I just don't have it. He doesn't nap in the day, doesn't sleep at night.

Pu/pd doesn't seem to settle him, should I just use it constantly every day till it works?

[becj86]

He's exhausted by 8, fussy, and falls asleep in 2 seconds but I can try

This is why he's waking so early though - you could push more gently, say 15min per week for a bit and see how he goes. Nursery might be a bit happier with that if you talk them through the plan?

PUPD is not appropriate to use when he's not got a suitable routine.

I imagine you're trying to move to something like this:
7 - WU, eat
8 - solids
10 - nap
11:30 - eat
12:30 - solids
2:30 - nap
4 - eat
6:30/7 - eat
7/7:3- BT

The issue with doing it in 15min increments over 4-8 weeks (depending on cooperation from nursery) is that he'll be ready for another change by then and you'll likely spend most of that time in an UT/OT loop which will come with its own NWs and OT building. I don't think the fundamental issue is independent sleep at this point - nobody can be expected to sleep at times they're not tired enough and frankly, he's sleeping UT 1hr naps every time - either he's being woken due something at 1hr every time or he's UT when he's going down for his naps. When DS was in daycare, his carers often mistook his cues - bored for tired, tired for hungry. It really took giving them a routine and asking them to stick to it for things to come out in the wash. It only took 3-4 days once they did it - took me 2 months to convince them.

Would you be able to try an EBT to see if he catches up and copes better?

[Alexian28]

Sorry, I never reported back! I did wake to sleep for his 4:30 wake up and pushed his bedtime back to 7:15-7:30. We mostly broke him off his paci habit and told daycare to make sure he was staying up at least 3 hours before he is put to sleep, without his paci. Going ahead and starting solids helped a bit too. He has a fairly long day of 5:45/6am-7:15/7:30 pm with 2 1.5hr naps and occasionally a catnap but he's doing well on it so I'm OK with it. I think we need to start weaning the dream feed this weekend, dreading another change!

[becj86]

Glad things are going better. Remember with the dream feed that if you cut it down slowly and add the milk volume to the day, he will likely tolerate the change better.