Struggling with feeding and getting to a 3 hour easy with 3.5 week old

[becj86]

Its so variable with newborns - most at this age are feed, nappy change and back to bed. When they make it to 1.5hr awake is dependent on when they 'wake up' from that sleepy newborn phase so many babies have. Its typical at 3 months though.

A time at this age is probably more like 1hr than 1.5, for most babies.

[Clairehv]

Hi
Re the A time I agree I think she is getting very OT. I do not remember DD1 being awake this much at 4 weeks.

I went to the baby clinic this morning.
Whilst Ayda has put on weight she has dropped on the percentile line, so the HV thinks she is 'snacking' and I need to work on making sure she has an effective feed and trying to stretch her in between so then she feeds effectively again.
She has suggested I breast feed, ensure active feeding- nappy change halfway, winding etc, then when she seems finished try and rouse and offer a top up of expressed/formula to then be. Confident she has had a good feed so if then she is crying 15 mins later etc we can probably rule out hunger and then try and identify the overtired or discomfort cry.

Yesterday afternoon I managed to settle her with the dummy/paci in my arms And transfer into Moses so she did go 3 hours from the start of a feed to the next and she seemed to feed well.

Today so far
7am BF around 45 mins total.
Crying from 8.20am previously would have tried to feed again, but she fell asleep in arms.
S 8.30-8.55: woke up as we got to clinic. 9.15 crying, didn't settle until home
E : 10am took 130ml
But only settled in arms, when put into Moses seemed uncomfortable and woke up
11.10 crying / rooting
E : 11.30-12.15 BF
S:12.35 settled with dummy. WU 2pm
So seems to be waking now at 2pm and that is a 2  1/2 stretch so not quite 3 but better perhaps?

Haven't done the top up yet as she seemed settled after the BF but will try that as well.

[*Ali*]

What did the HV say about her taking so long to feed each time? Who are you seeing to check for a tongue tie? Make sure they are trained in that area and that they feel inside the mouth and not just look at the tongue or lips. 
It's normal for babies to eat little and often at this stage, certainly 2hrly so I wouldn't try to stretch her too much. She is probably wearing herself out trying to take in enough milk if it's still taking over an hour to feed so she just may not be able to take enough milk to go any longer. That does sound like a problem with the milk transfer. I wouldn't worry about sleeping lots in the morning and then being awake lots in the afternoon and evening. That is really common. It's not called the witching hour for nothing. 😉 She's still really tiny.

Can you wear her in a carrier/sling when she gets OT and upset?

[weaver]

Baby is so so tiny, I wouldn't read anything at all into not doing 3 hours and what seems like 'wonky routine'.  She's still getting used to the big world.  Use a sling if you have one and can (after the section?). TBH, my LO2 spent most of her first six weeks snoozing on my shoulder or in my arms   A routine emerged gradually from around 3 mos.

If you have the least concern that she has TT try to see a Lactation Consultant, preferably someone who comes recommended. The HV may be well intentioned, and even well informed, but unlikely to have the same level of training about TT.

[becj86]

Maybe try an A time of ~1:10 or 1:15 then. Its so easy to misread tired cues for hunger at this age.

[Clairehv]

Having googled TT then some signs are there
Long feeds
Falling asleep during feeds then waking quickly after
Wind/reflux
Callous on top lip.
Will call HV and BF counsellor today.

This is the link I looked http://www.mommypotamus.com/a-step-by-step-guide-to-diagnosing-tonguelip-ties/

Thanks for advising me. X

[Clairehv]

The other issue is naps.
I haven't been able to get her to nap or fall asleep other than on me apart from yesterday when I walked her with the pram.
I watch her cues. I.e this morning she woke at 6.40. Had 120 ml formula starting at 6.50am.
8 am yawn and very sleepy in arms. Tried to put in Moses basket. Crying literally as put down. Tried to settle in Moses by shh patting but escalates. Calmed as soon as in arms. Tried again and then put in sling. Slept 8.45-9.40 in sling when started crying again.
9.50 am E 120 ml end 10.30am
10.45 asleep in arms. Tried putting into Moses, woke up immediately. Calmed in arms. Slept again tried putting into Moses crying again so tried in pram. Crying getting louder. Picked up 10.40,  calm in arms now but not asleep.

So I am not sure how to stretch out the feeds if she won't sleep and how do I get her to sleep other than on me?

Thanks

[Lindsay27]

I am wondering if her A time is a bit too long? I would only expect her to really have an A time of maybe an hour, this morning if she woke at 6:40 and you caught her first yawn at 8 she maybe have already been past her window by then, ya know? In all honesty for the first 2 months I held my DD for a lot of naps, or she had naps in the sling or swing.  I would say it wasn't until 8/9 weeks that I really tried to establish naps in the crib.  At 4 weeks I was maybe doing 1 nap a day in the crib.

[ireneasheard]

Just wanted to say hope things improve. The early days are tough especially if you have an older child and drop off needed. Also early days activity is mostly feeding anyway.

At that age I spent time working on routine - particularly sleep time routine. Establishing wind down and putting down baby drowsy. I can't comment on reflux issues as none of my babies had reflux (only gassy). I would persist with put down. My son was also crying when being put down but I persisted in putting him down drowsy and now at 11 weeks fully awake and he self settles. Don't give up.

You could try a walk in the pram if you need baby to take a short nap.

Re tongue tie my son had tongue tie. Would definitely get an ibclc lactation consultant to take a look and examine baby's mouth to confirm. My son had a tie that was snipped at 3 weeks and our feeds improved immensely. (Breastfed baby here so it was causing a lot of pain but my son was still managing somehow to put on weight so he was transferring milk efficiently). Good luck.

[Clairehv]

Hi
I haven't fallen off the face of the earth and do appreciate the help
have had 2_3 difficult days and am feeling a bit low to be honest.
Have moved fully to bottle feeds but haven't been able to put her down at all for naps.
She is asleep on DH at the moment so going to wash my hair and go to sleep but will post our EASY or lack of tomorrow. Really need some help
Love C x

[becj86]

Hugs honey. Hope you get a good sleep in. Enjoy your shower!

Sorry you're having a rough time.

[Clairehv]

Thanks Bec
I presume I need to start a new thread as Ayda nearly 6 weeks now.
Anyway we moved fully to bottle feeding on sunday so have done 5 full days of that.

My main issue now seems to be settled her for naps and keeping her asleep.
I think we struggle a lot with wind and I do suspect reflux. Am back at GPs tomorrow

Our last few days have looked like this:-

Monday (5 weeks old)
WU 6.30am
E 6.50am 60 ml expressed/60 ml formula
S tried to settle from 7.50am seemed asleep in arms, woke up as soon as laid down (regurgitation sounds and shuffling) then asleep in car seat 8.30-9.45am with a WU at 40 mins

E 10 am 170 ml
S wouldn't settle in Moses. Put in pram and walked. Sleep 11.10-11.30 woke up hysterically crying, kept walking.she stayed awake
Crying from 12.30pm
E 1pm 50 ml fell asleep ( only 20 mins sleep from 10am
S 1.15-1.30 then crying and burped
E 1.40pm 40 ml
S 2-2.15
Got back to sleep in arms at 2.40pm- 3.10pm crying/discomfort
E 4pm 40ml
S in sling 4.10pm-5.45pm
Bath 6pm
E 6.20-8pm : 150ml plus another 10ml. (Drinks 1-2 oz at a time then has breaks/I try to burp
S 8.15pm-11.30pm
E 11.30pm 50ml sleep
E 4am 70ml
Asleep on me from 5am ( wouldn't settle in Moses)

Tuesday
WU 7.40am
E 7.45am- 8.30am 100ml
S in sling 8.55am- 11am ( didn't risk swapping to Moses)
E 11am 70ml end 11.50am
S in pram 12.05-12.30 then awake,crying from 1.20pm- 2pm
2pm 110ml
S 2.40pm on me , into Moses about 3.30pm continued to sleep until 4.30pm
E 4.30pm 110ml
6pm bath
E 6.15-7.45pm 100ml, slept until 8.45pm then had 60ml
S 9pm-11pm
E 11pm 30 ml ( 2 poos wouldn't have any more milk
E 3am 100ml
Sleep 5am-7.30am

Wednesday
E 7.30am-8.10 120ml
S in sling 8.45 transferred to Moses , woke straight away, asleep in arms, crying 9.30am
E 9.45am 90ml
S in arms then into pram 10.15-11am
E 11.30 30 ml, then 12.00 30ml
S 12.20-1.10pm
E 1.15 -1.50pm 100ml
S in car 2.30-3pm: wakes as soon as lift car seat out
S in car 4pm-4.45pm
E 5pm 120ml
Bath
6.30pm 40ml fell asleep on bottle until 7.30pm
E 7.30-9pm 90 ml
Sleep 9pm-1.30am
E 1.30am 90 ml
WU 4.30am refused milk, lots of trapped wind and trumps
Sleep 5am-7am

So today has been similar with her really not getting enough sleep and just seeming uncomfortable, has cried through feeds as well today.

I am really at a loss to know how to settle her independently, Orr at this stage do I just focus on her sleeping any way I can as I think I have one overtired baby.

Xx

[becj86]

Honey, I think until the reflux (I think that's what is happening too - just the 15-20min naps with long periods of crying at different times of day, waking as soon as lying down, regurg/gurgling sounds when laid flat) or whatever the discomfort is is sorted, you just have to do what you can to get her to sleep. I would suggest a slightly shorter A time at 6 weeks, maybe 1hr to 1:15 max and see if she settles a bit more easily as those short naps could be OT/OS but from your descriptions, I would bet on the pain. I would think sling and carseat naps where possible and raise the head of the cot for night. If she currently sleeps in the cot at night, I would keep that up as it will help in the long run when you want to ST but at this point, I'd not worry too much about independent sleep for naps - you just have to get the sleep into her and do that how you can.

[Clairehv]

Thank you.
Feel like I am getting so much wrong right now.
I try and settle her from just before 1 hour awake but it is taking a long time to get her to sleep as you can see from the A time.
Feeds are taking such a long time even with bottle.
She has just woken at 2am having been asleep since 9pm and has only had 40ml.
I don't want to force feed as I know that's a mistake with reflux.

Will really push the GP this afternoon for some meds or a paediatric referral.
X

[becj86]

FX for your appointment!