Advice on how to establish 6w/o naps in cot.

[Clairehv]

Hi
Further to my previous post I am rewriting for some advice.
I was struggling with feeding and sleeping for DD2 however at the 5 week mark I fully made the switch to bottle feeding due to very long breast feeds, her not gaining weight and silent reflux.
She is now 6 weeks  and 5 days and having had her weighed she is now tracking on the 50% line so am happy with that.
Am going around in circles with the GP having stopped gaviscon at 4 weeks due to constipation and having tried carobel powder which did nothing then we are back on the gaviscon and I have been advised to give laculose if she gets constipated again. I am pushing for a referral to secondary care but in the meantime, her feeds have certainly become quicker in the last few days and she doesn't seem to be comfort feeding for 1.5 hrs.

However the main issue for me now is all of her successful naps for practically 2 weeks have been on me or in the sling.
She will sleep for 1.5_2 hrs in the sling with definite wake ups at the 20 min and 40 min Mark.

If I try and settle in her Moses she doesn't go to sleep and tbh after 20_30 mins I give up as to avoid an OT baby.
I try the pram, if she has fallen asleep on me she wakes as soon as put in pram or only sleeps 20 mins despite me walking for 1.5 hrs, or she wakes as soon as pram moving.

DD1 slept really well although I know I worked on it but I cAnnot remember what I did, I remember at first yawn I used to Swaddle and lie down but cannot remember at what age.

So I feel like I am making a rod for my own an back, I cannot shower, or do anything and am even going to the loo with the sling on.

So please please any advice on how to try and get at least 1 nap a day in the Moses basket established would be really appreciated.

I can post our EASY if needed.

Thanks

[Lindsay27]

I think like your DD1 it is something that just has to be worked on, and in the meantime fully expect horrid naps and OT, but I think if you do it now you will save yourself in the long run yk?  So I rocked both my LOs to sleep for the first while and what I did was rock until they were reallllly drowsy while patting and then continue the patting when placed in the crib, and eventually could rock less and less over time.  Would it be possible to do something similar, and hold her until she is drowsy while patting and out her down? With DD I did a whole lot of shh/pat and it took a long while (20mins) to get her down and then again at the 40min mark, so it felt like I spent all nap patting her, but it only took about 2 weeks before she was able to settle pretty well on her own.  It was probably 4.5 months though before she learned how to transition at 40mins my herself.

[Scottishmummy]

Hi and congratulations on your 2nd baby

my DD was similar, would only sleep in sling at first but around 8wks got too heavy to carry around all the time and was getting in the way of when looking after DS.

I took advice from lovely ladies here and what worked for us was:

1) getting idea of right A time for her going on when she would fall asleep in sling
2) setting up a nap routine with a short WD before the full A time just  in bedroom, low lighting, play a lullaby)
3) put her in Moses basket in a tight swaddle and put on white noise and hold her in the basket and also sh until she fell asleep. Sometimes I needed to jiggle the mattress a little to get her to settle.
4) continue to hold past the 20min jolt if someone else was in the house to help with DS. If not I tried to sit him with a TV programme or story on the iPad until after the 20min mark. Not ideal but it was only a short time. I know some people have also used newborn swaddle sleeping bags to get the close swaddle which continues to hold them which might be worth a try?

This helped us get a cot nap but it was short- 40 mins at most until she was a good bit older so I also did sling naps partly so we could leave the house and also to ensure she had at least one or 2 long naps a day.

I am glad I started cot naps early though, even though it was only a couple a day and with help for her to settle as at least it got her used to cot and after a while we were able to hold her less and allow her to self settle more.

As Lindsay said the longer cot nap didn't come until later- I think she was 3mo before I could hold her through the sleep cycle transition to get s longer nap

[Lindsay27]

Yes I forgot to mention the swaddle as well, my DD was in a tight swaddle until 5 months and there was no way she would have ever napped without it.

[Clairehv]

Thanks scottishmummyy and Lindsay.
It's amazing what you forget in 3.5 years I found dd1 notebooks and it seems I have rose tinted glasses about her naps in the early days and did have to work on them but eventually she was like clockwork and a great napper
So I think dd2 A time is around an hour, most of which at the moment is spent feeding and keeping upright.
I like the idea of pursuing 1 nap in cot at the moment.
Yesterday wasn't great I didn't use sling but tried walking with the pram and dd2 only did 20 mins then woke despite the fact I wslked for 1 hour+

Will work on the cot nap this week.

When you held in the Moses basket past the 20 min Mark was that with your hands on baby or were you bent over with your arms round.

Fingers crossed.

[Scottishmummy]

DD wouldn't nap in the buggy either..too stimulating for her nosey nature! I used to go out with her in the sling, DS on the buggy board & the changing bag in the buggy!

When I was holding her in Moses basket I knelt beside it with my hands on her ... Tried not to be bent over to avoid back ache.

[Clairehv]

I joked today that I only take the pram for a walk to carry my bag and dd1 on the buggy board. Dd1 in the sling.
Walked 10km today in total trying to enforce naps!

[Clairehv]

No real progress here.
Thursday I tried to pursue nap 1 in the cot, had to resettle at 20 mins and then had the 40 min wake up and after 30 mins of shhh pat in arms gave up.
Friday was a non starter as DD1 was at home so had to use the sling for every nap.
Yesterday and today we have tried but failed.

I do think the reflux/wind is causing me far more problems than with DD1  despite me really persistently winding throughout and after a feed and keeping upright for 20 mins, then I Swaddle and settle in Moses Ayda pretty much wAkes within minutes of being laid down. Yesterday she had been in Moses 10 mins, I picked up she made a weird gurgling noise and vomited everywhere. So clearly that  nap was over. Today we have had two vomiting incidents within 10 mins of me thinking she is asleep.

I will post our day as an example I just needed to offload.
The thing is I know she needs to and can sleep. She will do a 2 hr nap in the sling just nowhere else!

[Clairehv]

Hi vomited this mornings feed as well.
WU 7.15am,
E 90ml then vomited. It was a slow feed and she winded several times.
Then 60 ml at 8.30 after vomit.
Tried to settle from 8.40- yawned seemed to settle in arms, tried to lie down in Moses before eyes closed and do shhh pat. Persevered for 30 mins, she wouldn't sleep.
So tried sling conscious that her while S time was going to be awake. Sling hasn't worked either so just going to offer bottle at 10am and then try for a sleep after that.

I am at a loss. I think her A time is around an hour but to be honest as she is so slow to feed our whole A time is spent feeding and then keeping upright. Not sure if I should be doing anything with her at 8 weeks.
I am really starting to get down and anxious that I cannot get her to sleep in the day.

She will settle at night though, once she is full i.e last night drank 220 ml from 6.40-8pm then slept from 8.15pm 2.30am. Then after that feed couldn't get her settled apart from on me. Lots of straining, grunting throat clearing despite being asleep.

So just venting really x

[Scottishmummy]

Huge hugs, it is so exhausting at this age, especially with a toddler running around too.

Have you seen GP re reflux? I've no personal experience but have been told it can contribute to short naps.

Re settling to sleep- I had to start DD in the cot. If I started her in my arms & put her in when sleepy she woke and wouldn't resettle and got OT. Have you tried putting her in the cot, swaddled from start and doing whole settle in the cot?

It is very tiring and frustrating and hard with a 2nd to cope with. If you need to use the sling for you sanity & baby's sleep, it's fine. You can always try again another nap/another day. As I says above I could only get a short nap in the cot at this age too so alternated cot & sling naps to make sure DD got some long naps but also had opportunity to learn cot sleep

Big hugs X X X

[Clairehv]

Hi
Thank you, yes I had hoped to have a breakthrough as my full time childcare for DD1 ended last week so for the next couple of weeks have to manage 1/2 day preschool drop offs and both girls at home in the afternoons so not going to be able to persevere with lengthy pu pd. In cot.

Oh well just have to put up with the sling a little longer
In answer to your question yrs we have been at the gp every week. Still on gaviscon but back this week and will push for ranitidine

To settle in the cot whet was your routine/? And did you stay until they were asleep?

[Lindsay27]

It used to take me a good 20mins to get DD to settle in her crib  and I stayed until she was in a deep sleep, and then I came back in at the 40min mark to help her transition. It really did mean I spent practically her while nap in her room, but it only took about 2 weeks for her to be able to sort out falling asleep. That might not be doable for you with another LO around, so maybe just try to focus on that for morning nap while your other LO is at nursery.  It was about 4.5 months before she really started transitioning sleep cycles on her own.

[Scottishmummy]

This was our routine to get DD to sleep in cot:
1) a very short WD before the full A time just go in bedroom, low lighting, play a lullaby
3) put her in Moses basket in a tight swaddle and put on white noise and hold her in the basket and also sh until she fell asleep. Sometimes I needed to jiggle the mattress a little to get her to settle.
4) continue to hold past the 20min jolt if someone else was in the house to help with DS. If not I tried to sit him with a TV programme or story on the iPad until after the 20min mark. Not ideal but it was only a short time. I know some people have also used newborn swaddle sleeping bags to get the close swaddle which continues to hold them which might be worth a try?

Having said that my DS didn't SS for naps at all at this age. I really tried but had no luck with ST until he was older- 4-5mo.  It took a bit longer than with DD but he still learned to SS within a couple of weeks, he just wasn't ready for ST until he was that bit older.

[Clairehv]

Hi
Thank you for the support. I am feeling really disheartened and also like I am failing.
Whilst DD1 had reflux it was controlled on gaviscon and she was definitely lying down for naps although I do remember having to do the 20 min and 40 transition. even creeping in to restart the dream sheep at 35 mins.

With Ayda I think I am really struggling with her reflux and severe wind.

So last night she woke at 1.30am. Had 10 ml stopped, made a weird noise and vomited. By the time got her changed then fed and settled it was 3 am, then at 4am the gurgling swallowing and catching breathe started so I picked up. she slept on my chest until 7 ish.

E 7 : drank 120 ml very slowly, need winding every 30 ml
S sleep upright  on me 8am, transferred to carry cot. Woke within minutes. I tried to settle without picking up but weird noises. Picked up small vomit then asleep.
S in carry cot 8.35-9am. Woke up and despite me walking did not fall asleep.
Home at 9.50 burped when lifted out.
E 10am 50 ml ( so OT fell asleep)
11am 100ml
S upright then Into car seat work up. Stayed awake in car , making throat clearing noise. Was awake until 12.30 when home and put in sling.  So S = 12.30_1 pm
1pm E 120  ml (end 1.45pm)
S 2.30-3.50pm in sling
E 4pm 90ml (end 4.45pm)
S 5-530pm in sling
Stretch and kick about on play at
Both girls in bath 5.50pm
E 6.10 very OT crying but calmed and had 150ml by 7.10
Upright then into cot 7.25
7.35 awake fussing crying
Picked up - burped then rooting
7.45 60ml
S in cot 8.10pm

So feeds taking a long time and even with diligence over winding she still is so unhappy lying down.

I don't know what to do.
X

[Scottishmummy]

That sounds so tough & distressing for you both. I'm sorry I have no personal experience with reflux.

Have you looked for support/resources on the reflux FAQ or on the reflux board?

Sleep and the reflux baby.

Colic, Reflux, & Crying

It sounds like you're trying everything and the reflux and wind is messing it up for you, so it is not your fault at all and you are certainly not failing. If she hasn't learnt to nap in her cot at 6wks & needs upright sling naps for a bit longer, it really is ok, there is lots of time to learn IS as she gets older and her wind & reflux gets more under control. Please be kind to yourself xxx