Author Topic: PD Method, going on 2 weeks  (Read 728 times)

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Offline KYKatydid

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PD Method, going on 2 weeks
« on: July 10, 2016, 14:44:36 pm »
Hi All!,

New here :) DS just turned one, and we started the PU/PD (but mostly PD, per the book), going on the start of three weeks and we're still struggling. Naps in particular are brutal. I wanted to give as much background as possible:

We made the transition from rocking to near drowsy to PU/PD. I would also sometimes nurse to sleep. He's a combo of a spirited child and an angel. Angel in that he doesn't really play super aggressively, and sometimes exercises caution when figuring things out, instead of barreling through. But spirited in that he's always moving, needs good wind-down time, is often described as "busy" "extremely observant" and "very determined" and shows his opinions quite clearly.

All of this comes out in naps, and bedtime.

Bedtime: Our routine is low lights/activity an hour before bed, at the start we give a bath (which he loves, we keep low lights, soft talking), so he can have a good bit of wind down before that, lotion, diaper and dressed for bed, books, nurse, and to sleep. After he nurses he usually rolls around in his crib for close to thirty minutes before falling asleep. But, he doesn't want whoever is on night duty to leave the room. With that, I've been moving a chair further away from his crib the past couple of days. DH isn't doing the chair method. Sometimes with me I feel doing the PD is a game for him. He thinks it's funny and will sometimes wait for me to get up to put him down if he's being a goof to sit down suddenly, and then laughs about it. That's why I've been doing the chair method. He doesn't do this with DH. 

Nights: He wakes up 2-idontknowhowmany times a night, with the latter being a recent. He sometimes wakes up screaming, and is conscious. He's relieved when I come into the room. This I really don't like. Our Ped said it could be night terrors, but he's not in a cold sweat, he is aware.

We've been working on night weaning. I don't nurse before 3, and at 3 I've been tapering off the time that he's actively nursing (was 5 mins/side, we're now down to 2), and with that he sometimes protests, but not for long. I know the book says to just cut them off at this age with PU/PD, but I tried that and it was horrific, and I wound up throwing out my shoulder from doing so much PU/PD. I'm trying to be as fair as possible.

Naps: We do a 20-30 minute wind down period of low, quiet activity, diaper change, lower light in his room, and he just out right protests. He goes through a happy, just restless stage, to all out tantrum, and does that cycle twice. Sometimes it takes him an hour to fall asleep for naps. I just use my voice during tantrums, because he doesn't want to be touched.

I'm getting very worn out by all this.

He's also up what feels too early. He's asleep by 7P and up at 6A, but is ready for another nap 1.5-2 hours after his awake time. So to me that says it's too early, since at this age they are supposed to be up for 3 hours.

I just don't know what to address first. I've tried a strict "schedule" of him going to sleep at the same times, if he wakes up too early from a nap, it's PU/PD until he either falls back asleep, or it's time to get up. If he falls back asleep, I wake him up when it's time for him to supposed to wake up. This is per an example in Tracy's book.

I want to be consistent and clear, as this is most helpful for the whole family.

DH and I alternate every 2 nights.

I wondering about trust issues? I have let him cry for 10-15 minutes just to keep my sanity on really hard days where I was getting upset at him. And there have been two nights we genuinely by mistake let him CIO. One night I forgot to turn the monitor on, and the other our power went out, and our back up batteries were done. Poor guy!

I would love people's thoughts! I know that's a long post, but I wanted to try and clarify as much as possible. Note: I don't think he's teething.


Offline *Ali*

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Re: PD Method, going on 2 weeks
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2016, 15:10:57 pm »
I think it's probably a case of needing to have stricter boundaries and being consistent. If sometimes he wakes at night and feeds, sometimes you do PD, sometimes chair method, sometimes he's been left to cry alone it all reinforces crying to see what he gets this time.

Seeing as you had those incidents of crying alone I would work on rebuilding the trust whilst establishing what he ends to do at sleep times. I'd do the chair method but start really quite close by. Make sure the room is dark and try not to make eye contact. I'd get a sleepy phrase you can repeat in a calm voice when he cries. We used "it's just sleepy time. Lie down and go to sleep now please." Along with occasional shushing.

I'd also explain that mummy's boobies are sleeping at night so there will be no milk until morning. This is what I did with all 3 of mine at 12.5, 15 and 16.5mo respectively. The first few nights there was plenty of protesting but it is much easier for them to understand than feeding after a certain time. I offered a cup of water instead.

What naps is he having now? Maybe he needs a routine tweak too?
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline KYKatydid

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Re: PD Method, going on 2 weeks
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2016, 15:29:02 pm »
Goodness, my apologies in the delay! We had family come into town.

It's funny, the night I wrote this it hit me, "he doesn't have a watch, so he has no idea if it's 12A or 3A, so that's not fair"

I wound up putting a mattress in his room and putting a "cap" on his nursing time at 2 mins/side. He wound up only waking up 2x during the night while I was in there.

Now that I'm out, he's back to like 4-5x a night.

The water was a great tip, he still won't take it straight away, but will if I stop before he wants to be done nursing. But I'm at the point where I feel I need to tell him milkies have gone night night, too.

However, he completely puts himself to bed at naps AND bedtime (which is amazing), but still wakes up at the 40-45 min mark at naps, and sometimes every 2 hours at night. I for sure know at night is a habit because since I've been out of his room he wakes up w/in 30 mins of: 10:30, 12:00, 2:00. 4:30, 6:00. While I was in his room it was 12:00 and 4:30

We have key words for him to lay down, and he knows them and is usually a very good listener.

So here is a routine of what we have been trying to adhere to.

6:30-Wake (my husband gets him)
6:40-Breakfast
7:00-Wake up mommy/nurse
7:15-Independent play
7:30-Wave bye bye to daddy
7:45 Walk/Run/Outside time
8:45-Playtime (quiet, wind down)
9:15-Nap
10:15 or 10:45 (this is where I'm confused)- Wake and nurse
11:30 or 11:45-Lunch
12:30: Errands or playdate, or play time
1:15 or 1:45-Nap
2:15 or 2:45-Wake up nurse or snack
3:00-Playtime, read books, sing songs, etc
4:30-Make dinner
5:00-Dinner
5:45-Family walk
6:00-Bath
6:15-Low light and soothing activity
6:30 Story time and nurse
7:00 Asleep

He LOVES being around other children, and being outside so we try and do a good bit of that.

His naps need boundaries and fixing, and his night wake ups need to be addressed.

Question about naps: I know Hogg says in her book about 1.5 hours for naps, but I know a lot of other sources say a minimum of an hour. So when he wakes up at that 45 min mark, do we do chair method until an hour, or 1.5 hours? So far he won't settle. He just points to door and cries to go out. He is having 2 naps a day, still, and I feel he needs them.

He pretty much never wakes up happy, which makes my heart sad. So I know we need to make some changes.

He nearly always wakes up at 6:00, especially if he has a 4:30A waking, but sometimes will do 6:30 if he has a 5A waking.

And then if I do the chair or PUPD method until the "appropriate" wake time, and he's still crying, is he still just learning that if he cries long enough he gets what he wants (to get up and go play)?

Does he still need trust building? He very rarely protests when I leave anymore. And if he does, I go in straight away. But just the fact that he wakes up crying hard in the middle of the night, and SCREAMMMSSS if I don't wake up right away. Naps, I feel the crying is a cry for more sleep.

Thanks so much for your help :)



Offline *Ali*

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Re: PD Method, going on 2 weeks
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2016, 22:24:43 pm »
Sorry for the delay  I think he needs to move closer to one nap. His first A time is really quite short.  Check out the 2-1 nap faq. From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)

I think the trust is probably rebuilt now.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline KYKatydid

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Re: PD Method, going on 2 weeks
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2016, 16:11:45 pm »
No worries about the delay! I was out of town anyway ;)

The only thing with going down to 2 naps is that he's yawning, rubbing eyes, pulling ears (all sleepy signs, obviously) about 1.5 hours after he's awake. He more typically wakes up at 6, so by 7:30 he's tired.

He even started to fall asleep on our walk this morning around 8:15.

I suppose that's where I don't get going down to two naps? I had a couple other people suggest that to me, so I'm curious, but just wanting some explanation :) Thank you so much for your help!

Offline KYKatydid

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Re: PD Method, going on 2 weeks
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2016, 16:13:13 pm »
Oh! And I am planning on trying one nap for a week or so to see how it goes. I pushed his nap from 9:30 to 10:00 this morning.

Offline *Ali*

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Re: PD Method, going on 2 weeks
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2016, 20:18:39 pm »
I wouldn't necessarily go straight to one nap. I'd just push his first nap a bit later and see if you can get a long one reliably.  The transition can be a long and gradual one. Did you read the link?
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline KYKatydid

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Re: PD Method, going on 2 weeks
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2016, 15:48:18 pm »
Oh! And I am planning on trying one nap for a week or so to see how it goes. I pushed his nap from 9:30 to 10:00 this morning.

Per my above post, we pushed his 9:30 AM nap to 10:00, and then his PM was a cat nap, per the link you sent.

He has pretty much always woken up at the 40 minute mark for his AM nap, but even if I try to get him back down, he fights it. I've even tried to get him to the 1.5 hour mark that way, and he just fights it the whole time. How long would I try that for? And since he's fighting and once I hit the 1 hour mark and we stop trying, does he then learn that if he fights for so long he still gets out of a nap? Not sure how to handle that?

Offline KYKatydid

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Re: PD Method, going on 2 weeks
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2016, 01:43:59 am »
Today was a disaster. Looking over that link again, I think since his AM nap tends to be shorter, I will work on the short AM/long PM nap route.

Offline *Ali*

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Re: PD Method, going on 2 weeks
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2016, 16:32:05 pm »
Yes that's a good idea
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011