Weaning off cosleeping and breastfeeding advice?

[mtemte]

So our 7.5 month old has been EBF and have been cosleeping since 3 months old (following surgery). She has reflux which is managed very well with medication. She has been on solids since 18 weeks and takes 3 meals a day.
Up until now, she is feeding throughout the night several times a night, but just short feeds (half wakes, has a few gulps and back to sleep!). I am back to work and as she has been refusing a bottle, we found this arrangement to work for everyone - she gets the milk she needs throughout the night and everyone gets sleep! 
I am now thinking that the feeds are more for comfort during the night than actual hunger as often, her nappies in the morning are not so wet (is this due to the heat of the summer or not actually feeding very much at night?) and I am worried that she is getting very attached to the boob as a sleep prop. During the day, she falls asleep by herself at the childminder but at home, she either falls asleep in car/buggy or on the boob.
Any tips please as to how to approach this situation in the gentlest possible way? She is pretty headstrong but after everything she has been through (reflux and surgery) I want to do it in the most gradual and kindest way possible.
TIA!

[*Ali*]

Do you want to stop cosleeping too or just the night feeds?

How would you feel about the Gentle Removal Plan ?

And sorry you didn't get any quicker replies.

[~*Nicole*~]

she either falls asleep in car/buggy or on the boob.

Is she falling asleep in the car/stroller because you have to be out and about or because it's the only way she'll fall asleep. What does her daily routine look like for wake up times, eating times, nap times, bedtimes?

[mtemte]

Thanks ladies. First of all, I tried the gentle removal plan and it was just ridiculous - there were nights I was removing the boob from her mouth up to 80 times... Several nights in a row and she continued to root!
I think at this stage, i would like to try to start putting her in her own room as a goal. It's been almost 8 months and my DH has been in the spare room for the past three. Having said that, I'm back to work so if night several night feeds are necessary, I can't see myself being up 2/3+ times a night to feed her and beagle to get back to sleep each time. I feel at the moment that she is snacking all night so not actually having proper feeds and also is DEF using the boob as a prop to get back to sleep....
Her routine is as follows:
7.30/7.45 wake up
No feed as generally isn't hungry and needs to take medication on am empty stomach
8.30 small BF and off to childminder
10-11 approx nap
11/11.30 lunch (veg, meat/fish,carb mixed with approx 100mrs expressed breast milk spoon-fed as sue refuses bottles since surgery at 3m)
1.30 - 3/3.30 approx nap
3/3.30 snack yoghurt and fruit puree
4pm home from cm
5pm BF
6pm dinner varies - yoghurt and fruit or BLW from our meal
7pm bath
7.30/8pm BF and bed

She tends to be very cranky if she doesn't get a nap in between 2nd nap and bedtime so we may get her to nap for 20 mins in between of she falls asleep at the bf when she comes home....
Food can be complicated - sometimes she will accept the spoon, sometimes she won't. This is all due to surgery she had on her mouth at 3 months. She is also teething so that is adding to feeding issues - sometimes she will only eat what she can.out in her own mouth, sometimes she will be open to fruit purees in the evening....
I would ideally like her to sleep later in the afternoon to eliminate the need for last 20 min nap but it's a little complicated with working hours and childminder

[zissi]

hi there,

we had this all night snacking until my DD was 6 months old and I decided to sleep train using PUPD and shush pat. we kept her in her cot in our room and decided on a time when it would be acceptable to feed, in our case 3 hrs after last feed. sleep training the first night wasnt actually that bad, I think it took 25 mins for her to settle and she slept then for 3/4 hrs at which point she had a feed. so she had about 2 feeds on average per night which I found totally acceptable.
a few things jump out from your post: your child is at the childminder and doesn't get many breastfeeds during the day, so I wonder if she may need some more feeds than 2/3 per night, especially with BLW as they are not taking an awful lot of calories in from food at this age. how many days per week is she at the CM? do you feed more at weekends? also, if she is separated from you she may need the closeness and hence feeding during the night? or could you offer expressed BM in a cup to her? what sorptive surgery did she have if I may ask? also in terms of your routine, her second A time is very short for her age, I wonder if you could increase it a bit so she naps longer in the afternoon and this would eliminate the need for a 3rd nap?

[*Ali*]

What zissi describes about making up for lost feeds during the day is called reverse cycling and I agree that could be part of the problem. There is some helpful info on it here. http://kellymom.com/bf/normal/reverse-cycling/

Your DD is getting quite a small amount of breast milk in waking hours if she only has 3 BFs, one of which you describe as small, plus 3oz in food so it's not a surprise really that she needs to make up the lost calories at night. Have you tried offering the milk via a straw? EBF babies often do well with those.

I'd actually say all of your A times are very short so I'd look to increase both the first and second A times gradually to around 3hrs so you don't need that 3rd nap.

[~*Nicole*~]

I agree with Ali. My DD did a bit of reverse cycling BFing overnight. She nursed in the AM before work, the PM after work and at BT. Then she took 2 bottles with my mom of breastmilk each day. Then she dropped to 1 bottle only. She never took more than 5 or 6 ounces. My older children took larger bottles but she was content with the smaller amounts. She woke to nurse overnight through 10 months and even now sometimes wakes and nurses at 13 months but much more rarely. I think it is the combo comfort+nursing that she is seeking since I worked all day and she only got that time with me overnight really. It gave her the calories she needed and the mommy time she needed so I didn't push it and let it be.

That said, I DID move her to her own room and bed at around that time--10 ish months. She woke up less and less and nursed less and less after she wasn't right next to me in my room. She also nursed and went right back to sleep so I wasn't super sleepy.

I also think that evening out your A times would help get rid of that 3rd catnap. She may be habitually napping early in the day but probably doesn't NEED to nap until a bit later. If you slowly push that nap out and then the second nap starts later you may find the 3rd catnap drops and she makes it to BT better. Being more rested through the day can actually help her sleep more settled overnight. Though I completely understand as my youngest needs more sleep and acts tired more readily than my older two and she would probably still nap around 10 am if I let her!

[mtemte]

Thanks ladies for your responses.
Well since I posted its funny but her activity times have increased. The CM is fantastic and generally goes at baby's rhythm so she sleeps when she is tired. HOWEVER, the CM was having to wake her in order for me to collect her. This week has been at a different rhythm where she has slept later in the morning and therefore her afternoon nap has been later. I have asked the CM not to wake her unless its within 5 mins of me collecting her so hopefully this will continue and we no longer need the catnap in the evening.
I agree she is not getting much milk and I would love for her to take more. I will try with a straw to see if that works - for the moment I have tried doidy cups, sippy cups etc but she is more interested in chewing the teats than actually drinking from them. She goes crazy for our glass when she sees us drinking so hopefully it will come soon enough. I will try with EBM and see if that works...
This week her sleep has been horrendous - waking every 15-30 mins after we put her down and pretty much waking every half hour all night. Last night she had a temp of 39.5 so Im taking her off to the Dr this evening. It could just be teeth (although I cant see anything ready to come through) or it could be ears or something - is this weeks nasty sleep due to this? TBC tonight.
At the weekend I BF a lot more and really take advantage of having her with me to feed her. However, she seems to have taken a habit of small feeds (which probably stems from the reflux early on) so it is generally little but often.
The surgery she had at 3 months was for a cleft lip - thankfully it was just her lip and not her palate but it was painful, traumatic (with nasal and throat aspirations several times a day for a full week) and since then has had a real blockage with regards to anything going near her mouth - once she decides what goes near her mouth, all is fine but trying to get anything else in there is generally very difficult (eg reflux meds, cream to massage on to her scar etc).
It hasnt been an easy road for her as you can see but she is the smiliest, happy baby I have ever seen. She does not have weight problems (almost 10.5kgs at 7.5 months) but I just want to have the most gentle transition as possible. Perhaps moving away from cosleeping but keeping the night feed would be a possibility? Have her in her own cot in our room and feed when required? WOuld my husbands snoring disturb her (he is currently in spare room!)..... With DD1, as soon as we moved her to her own room at 8 months, she slep much better without the snoring etc to disturb her.
Any tips or recommendations gratefully accepted!

[~*Nicole*~]

I use white noise with great success! I just use a radio set to a station that does not come in and it's very staticy and perfect for white noise! DD sleeps through my other 2 LOs and everyone using the bathroom right next to her bedroom!

[mtemte]

Thats amazing! I tried white noise with her when she was tiny and it never worked 

[~*Nicole*~]

I'm surprised. It worked great with DS as well. Do you have it on a high enough volume. Hers is on pretty loud!

With my first DD I played a lullaby CD on repeat all night long. That worked but I got super tired of hearing those songs!

[mtemte]

I'll definitely try again but it had no effect in the beginning. Maybe I need to turn it up Even at this age it would still work?

[~*Nicole*~]

All LOs are different, but it's worth a try! I didn't need it when my DD2 was really young but as she became more aware and listened to her older brother and sister and other noises around the house I started using it so I didn't have it since day 1 with her. You won't know unless you try.