Author Topic: 16 week old still short naps: how to move to 4 hr easy  (Read 2502 times)

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Offline Clairehv

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16 week old still short naps: how to move to 4 hr easy
« on: September 07, 2016, 20:49:48 pm »
Hi
As a continuation from my previous post, DD2 is now 16 weeks old. Will be 4 months next weekend.
I think she is ready to move on from 3hr EASY but I am still struggling to get any naps longer than 40 minutes so am not sure what to do.

Shall I just extend the feed times any way? X
Claire




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Re: 16 week old still short naps: how to move to 4 hr easy
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2016, 09:02:42 am »
If she's showing less interest in one or more feeds you could begin to extend the time between E, yes. It may help her take a better fed.  You don't have to move to 4hr immediately, it's ok to go in steps and it's ok if she can't manage to move to 4hrly E too. There are some LOs who can't extend E until more like 6 months.

Did you want to continue your other thread for routine and sleep support or did you want to leave that thread and move to here for overall routine support now?


Offline Clairehv

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Re: 16 week old still short naps: how to move to 4 hr easy
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2016, 18:40:59 pm »
Hi
Thank you. Very happy to continue on here for full routine support as I had several queries.

She has been on a 3 hour EASY, easily managing the feed routine but have not been able to establish naps.
I have never done a dream feed and she dropped down to 1 bottle in the night by around 11-12 weeks.
She has fully slept through the night 3 times not sure why and last one was a couple of weeks ago.

However I think the night feed, between 3-4am is really affecting her first feed of the day.

I.e
Last night, Wednesday night
She slept 7.15pm -3.45am
e drank 160ml milk
Thursday am:
Woke at 7.05am
Offered bottle, not interested. Took about 30ml at 7.30am.
S 9.00-10.45am (in cot! This is the first time she has ever slept that long - unintentionally moving me to a 4 hr easy from 7am)
11am E 170ml
S 1.05-1.45pm in pram. Did not drop off
E 3pm 60ml -would not take more
S 3.40pm-4.20pm (had hoped would get to 5pm)
Early bath at 5.45pm
E 6.20pm 250ml
S 7.00pm

So the 4am feed is definitely impacting.
Shall I introduce a dream feed. My worry is doing the dream feed, her not settling and then still waking at 3am or 5.30am maybe.

I am happy to go with a 3.5hr-4hr EASY. I was so surprised that she wouldn't take more milk at 3pm! Overtired I suspect.

The naps I just have to keep battling with I think.

X
Claire




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Re: 16 week old still short naps: how to move to 4 hr easy
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2016, 19:04:09 pm »
It's very normal to have a night feed for a good while yet so may it is impacting on the morning feed but she's doing a really long stretch between E over night so I'm not sure I would reduce it any.  How about as an alternative you try the Wu feed later?  Mine would never eat when he woke anyway so it was always 30-60 mins after WU.  Perhaps she'll be more hungry at 8?

Great cot nap :)
S 9.00-10.45am (in cot! This is the first time she has ever slept that long - unintentionally moving me to a 4 hr easy from 7am)
11am E 170ml
S 1.05-1.45pm in pram. Did not drop off
E 3pm 60ml -would not take more
S 3.40pm-
So she didn't sleep at all from 10.45am until 3.40pm?  The 40 min period in the pram was this awake?  Do you usually do pram naps or was it out of the ordinary for her?


Offline Clairehv

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Re: 16 week old still short naps: how to move to 4 hr easy
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2016, 21:07:09 pm »
Hi
apologies was typing on my phone

She slept 1.05pm-1.45pm and then after her typical 40 min wake up did not drop back off to sleep despite me walking. The pram was stationary for a while but then I was walking from 2.15.-2.45 so thought she may have drifted off. She looked like she was going to but hadn't by the time I got home.

Until about 3 weeks ago all of her naps were pram or sling. I have  been work ing on trying to get the first sleep of the day in the cot.
She always wakes at 40 minutes, in the sling she will wake but go back to sleep. In the pram she wakes and if I keep going May take 20 mins but will go back to sleep. I haven't had a successful transition in the cot yet.

I was amazed by that cot nap. Didn't know what to do with myself!!

X
Claire




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Re: 16 week old still short naps: how to move to 4 hr easy
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2016, 08:40:54 am »
OK, just had a quick look at your previous thread. Looks like you were up to an A time of 1hr 40 but have now increased to 2hrs+
Was that intentional to see what happened or was it just how the day turned out? Some of those A times are huge.

I have a few questions for you:

- Have you got a school/nursery run in there you have to work around too? If so could you briefly give me the times and what you usually do with DD2 (ie pram nap or car or she waits until you are home or whatever) or what you need to do.

- On a regular day with no out of the ordinary appointments to attend what A time would you be aiming for?

- Now that nap 1 is becoming established in the cot is there a chance of you establishing nap 2 in the cot or is vital that you are out and about with the pram for this nap? (not judging here, just asking, we all have things we need to do, just trying to get a picture of how your day is and what we are aiming for)

- Are you using or have you considered W2S for the 40 min transition to help establish a routine?

I haven't had a successful transition in the cot yet.
But yesterday she transitioned in the cot alone, yes? Or did I misunderstand that?

For now I would aim to have her asleep no later than 2hrs from any WU time.


Offline Clairehv

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Re: 16 week old still short naps: how to move to 4 hr easy
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2016, 19:09:43 pm »
Hi creations
Firstly thank you for responding and apologies it has taken me some days to reply.
Our wifi has died so can only respond on my phone so I apologise in advance for any typos.

The nap last Wednesday is the only nap that she has transitioned.
To be honest our days seem to be getting worse not better and her nights have regressed now as well.
I think the tiredness is affecting her milk intake in the day.

Moving forwards for DD1
Monday will be a pre school day.
I will have to drop her at 8.45 and pick up at 11.45.
While the weather is good I would like to walk as using the car still involves a walk and means getting A (DD2) in and out of car. It's only 3-4 min drive 10-12 min walk.

Tuesday and Wednesday full day childcare. Drop off about 8am pick up 5pm.
For drop off I can use car and envisage being able to drop off and get home to still give DD2 nap in cot.
Thursday drop off the same 8am
Pick up 12.30pm and DD1 gymnastics class at 1pm. No idea how this will work

Friday. No school. Both girls all day.

The 2 hour A times have not been international. She just took a while to settle. She is 4 months on Friday though and the book says 4 month olds may do 2 hours.
However I think her A time is 1hr 40.

So here is where we have been at the last two days:-

Saturday night
Sleep 6.15pm
Night bottle 1.30am
Woke 6.15 am Sunday, after being unsettled from 5am. This is new , always used to get to 7am

So Sunday
WU 6.15am
E 7am : 90 ml ( not much)
S : settled in cot after some crying by 8.20am- 9.05
- we had to travel so just set off early
S fell back to sleep 10-10.37am
E 11am 90ml
S (back in car continuing journey) 12.05-12.20 then 1,10-1.50pm
E 2.45pm 90ml
S 3.10-3.40 in sling (was crying first)
E 4pm 70ml
Very whingy
S 4.40pm-5.10pm in sling (ideally would be later)
Bath 5.45pm
Then 60ml but lots of OT crying
S 6.30pm-
12.30am only 60ml
4am 60ml! (Did try and settle without feeding first)

Monday
WU 6.15/30 after dummy resettle 5.40
E 7.20am 90ml
S (settled in pram as knew had to walk DD1 to nursery school)
S 830-9am (woke before we set off) then 9.40-10.10 (on tummy, flipped at 9.30 and was calmer straight away)
E 10.50 90ml
S : fell asleep unintended at 11.50am so transferred to cot, woke but sleep by 12pm- 12.40,
Tried to resettle but dd1 around so into sling and walk with both
S 1pm-2pm on/off
E 2.15 90ml
2.45 very whingy 70ml
So was clearly tired from 3.10 but had to take Eliza to swimming.
Then resisted nap until lots of rocking shhhinb s 4.25-4.50.
Annoyingly woken by someone shouting.

So very tired.
Bath 5.45pm
E drank 90ml but wanted to be asleep.
S 6.20pm

So I think that she is not sleeping or eating enough in the day so our nights are affecting the morning bottle and its a bit of a cycle.

Not sure what to do X

Claire




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Re: 16 week old still short naps: how to move to 4 hr easy
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2016, 12:13:05 pm »
Hi creations
Firstly thank you for responding and apologies it has taken me some days to reply.
Our wifi has died so can only respond on my phone so I apologise in advance for any typos.

The nap last Wednesday is the only nap that she has transitioned.
To be honest our days seem to be getting worse not better and her nights have regressed now as well.
I think the tiredness is affecting her milk intake in the day.

Moving forwards for DD1
Monday will be a pre school day.
I will have to drop her at 8.45 and pick up at 11.45.
While the weather is good I would like to walk as using the car still involves a walk and means getting A (DD2) in and out of car. It's only 3-4 min drive 10-12 min walk.

Tuesday and Wednesday full day childcare. Drop off about 8am pick up 5pm.
For drop off I can use car and envisage being able to drop off and get home to still give DD2 nap in cot.
Thursday drop off the same 8am
Pick up 12.30pm and DD1 gymnastics class at 1pm. No idea how this will work

Friday. No school. Both girls all day.

The 2 hour A times have not been international. She just took a while to settle. She is 4 months on Friday though and the book says 4 month olds may do 2 hours.
However I think her A time is 1hr 40.

So here is where we have been at the last two days:-

Saturday night
Sleep 6.15pm
Night bottle 1.30am
Woke 6.15 am Sunday, after being unsettled from 5am. This is new , always used to get to 7am

So Sunday
WU 6.15am
E 7am : 90 ml ( not much)
S : settled in cot after some crying by 8.20am- 9.05
- we had to travel so just set off early
S fell back to sleep 10-10.37am
E 11am 90ml
S (back in car continuing journey) 12.05-12.20 then 1,10-1.50pm
E 2.45pm 90ml
S 3.10-3.40 in sling (was crying first)
E 4pm 70ml
Very whingy
S 4.40pm-5.10pm in sling (ideally would be later)
Bath 5.45pm
Then 60ml but lots of OT crying
S 6.30pm-
12.30am only 60ml
4am 60ml! (Did try and settle without feeding first)

Monday
WU 6.15/30 after dummy resettle 5.40
E 7.20am 90ml
S (settled in pram as knew had to walk DD1 to nursery school)
S 830-9am (woke before we set off) then 9.40-10.10 (on tummy, flipped at 9.30 and was calmer straight away)
E 10.50 90ml
S : fell asleep unintended at 11.50am so transferred to cot, woke but sleep by 12pm- 12.40,
Tried to resettle but dd1 around so into sling and walk with both
S 1pm-2pm on/off
E 2.15 90ml
2.45 very whingy 70ml
So was clearly tired from 3.10 but had to take Eliza to swimming.
Then resisted nap until lots of rocking shhhinb s 4.25-4.50.
Annoyingly woken by someone shouting.

So very tired.
Bath 5.45pm
E drank 90ml but wanted to be asleep.
S 6.20pm

So I think that she is not sleeping or eating enough in the day so our nights are affecting the morning bottle and its a bit of a cycle.

Not sure what to do X

Claire




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Re: 16 week old still short naps: how to move to 4 hr easy
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2016, 17:43:21 pm »
As you want to walk to pre=school how about just starting the nap in the stroller or sling at home around 8am so she's already asleep when you set off?  If She's waking at 6.15am this would be 1hr 45 A time which is about right for 4 months.
You might also find she's more likely to transition and longer nap in the stroller/sling.


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Re: 16 week old still short naps: how to move to 4 hr easy
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2016, 08:54:54 am »
Hi
Did that on Monday but she woke in the pram before we left the house.

Today (Wednesday)
I have had more success with nap 1 in cot.
I went into room at 30 mins and lightly stirred her and put the white noise on. She has transitioned past 40 mins and so far has slept 1 hr 20 mins.
Will post our whole day later and need to ask some night time advice as well.

Thanks for the help x
Claire




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Re: 16 week old still short naps: how to move to 4 hr easy
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2016, 18:24:08 pm »
Sounds like some good success today :)


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Re: 16 week old still short naps: how to move to 4 hr easy
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2016, 20:28:24 pm »
Hi
we are a couple of weeks on, A is 4 months! Wow and around 18 weeks.
Our successful naps are few and far between and regardless of cot/pram/sling she seems to have such  a strong wake up reflex at 40 minutes.
We have moved quite easily to 4 hour feeds but just cannot get this day sleep established.
The nights seem to be going wonky as well. Dd1 was sleeping through by this point.

Anyway today:-
Dummy resettle 5.50am
WU 6.30am (would like to get to 7am to help rest of day.
E 7am
S 8.20am (was fussy from 8.10) - 9.30am, tried shh pat until 10am
E 11am
S was whiney from 11.15, S fell asleep in pram 11.50am- 12.30pm, (continued walking) S 1.15-2.20pm (had put on tummy at 1pm)
E 3pm
S (4.20-4.50pm. (Crying from 4.10) , so ideally I would really like this nap between 5-6pm but she cannot be awAke 2+ hrs
Bath 5.45pm
E 6pm 120ml then OT crying
Asleep by 6.30pm
Has woken a couple of times unusually before 9pm

So in the night she typically gets to around 2am then has a bottle.
We tried the 10.30pm feed a few times but she only drank 2oz then woke at 2/3am
Unlike my first daughter she seems unsettled from 5am ish and I use the dummy to resettle. Don't think iys hunger at that time as she never drains her first bottle at 7am.

Do you think the ability to transition over the 40 min will happen naturally?
X
Claire




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Re: 16 week old still short naps: how to move to 4 hr easy
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2016, 13:46:42 pm »
So no idea what to do today for the best.
She went down for a nap easily at 12.20pm after a 2 hour A time, possibly a little long but I was trying to push her nap later.
Woke at 1.10pm (50 mins - unusual) I tried resettling. Got a 10 min nap from 1.35-1.45 and then I persevered with trying to resettle until 2.30pm when I gave up.
Her next feed is due at 3pm but then she will probably want to be asleep by about 3.15.

I predict she will wake about 4pm, so then no idea how to get through bath time or do I try and force another nap about 5.30pm, meaning 4 naps today.

Totally at a loss with how to get my days extended to ensure a decent bedtime feed and not overtired.
X
Claire




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Re: 16 week old still short naps: how to move to 4 hr easy
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2016, 09:19:31 am »
Do you think the ability to transition over the 40 min will happen naturally?
It does look  like she's already doing it at times. There are some naps over an hour long so there must be a transition or two in there.

I'm not sure what to suggest.
have you tried a very early first nap?  Mine would have refused it but some LOs do like a very short first A time and then sleep better for that nap which helps them get a longer A time before naps 2.  What do you think?  Do you have a gut feeling or any feeling based on your experience with her?

I will say, this was a very hard period for us. Mine stopped long napping and went to 40 min naps for 2 months (3.5 to 5.5 months old) and I had to fit in 4 or 5 naps per day, it was very tiring.  From my point of view to get anything over that is a big bonus and shows hope for improvement on the nap length. Many LOs do nap better from 6 months too.


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Re: 16 week old still short naps: how to move to 4 hr easy
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2016, 13:31:42 pm »
I found that DD learned to naturally transition at 4.5 months (periodically) and DS was more like 6 months.  I do believe that as long as A times are right, that there is very much a natural/developmental component to learning how to transition.  As Creations has said, if there are naps here and there that are an hour there is some transition happening at some point.  I also agree that with both mine after 6 months, or rather after the 3-2, naps were just a whooooole lot better.

4 months is just an honest to goodness all around bad time for sleep.  I found it to be that way with both mine at that age.  Horrid!  I know that doesn't help but just wanted you to know that this is normal and you are doing fab managing it :)