10MO night waking for months now

[SusieQue]

Aargh, I just don't know what to do about our 10MO, I think we got a broken one! I can't remember the last time he slept through the night, his NWs are so random but I'm just not sure what to do about them anymore. We were giving him milk when he started waking in the night, and he would settle straight back to sleep but the last few nights he starts crying when we put him back down and he can take up to an hour to get back to sleep (while waking up poor DS1 in the meantime). He has 6 teeth already and I'm sure teething must be playing a part as he is sooo clingy in the day. I just don't know if it's routine or developmental - DH and I are just exhausted and I don't know how to "fix" things. Here is our last few days EASY:

A 5am - wouldn't resettle so brought downstairs
E 6am bottle 7oz
E 7.30 bowl of Ready Brek
S 9.30-10 in the pram
E 11.30 lunch
E 12.15 bottle 7oz
S 12.45-1.50 (he woke up)
E 4.15 dinner
E 6pm bottle 8oz then asleep
Woke up at midnight crying, gave Calpol and a bottle but took nearly an hour of rocking to get back to sleep
Then woke at 4.30 this morning but wouldn't resettle - started by sounding like he was trying to get back to sleep but then began crying so we got him up.

The other night he woke up at 2.30am, we gave him a bottle but he seemed really wide awake and was babbling loudly for about 2 hours before he dropped off.

He can do pretty long A times so I'm wondering if he needs less sleep? I have to pick up DS1 from school at 2.30 so his nap needs to be before then really. Does anything jump out as to what could be causing the NWs?

[Palmira78]

Hi SusieQue! From my point of view looking at his easy, your LO does not get too much sleep during the day, not even 2 hours... 11 hours for the nights sounds ok, but have you considered incrementing a little bit his naps? perhaps putting him to sleep a little bit earlier for the 9:30 nap?

I am having some issues myself with my almost 10 months DS2, however I would suggest that if your son is already used to not drinking milk during the night, do not go that road again. The thing is that if he gets used to drink to sleep they develop the "learnt" hunger so they count on those calories. I am aiming to eliminate the night feeds myself...

Has your DS started something new? do you see an improvement the nights when you medicate for the teeth pain?

[SusieQue]

Thanks nLuno! I hadn't actually thought that his day sleep was too little, so maybe I should look at that. I have to start the school run in the pram at 8.30 and he never falls asleep until after 9. I do wake him by 10 to make sure he is tired enough for a longer nap later, so I wonder if this is where the problem lies. He's very hit and miss with his afternoon sleep so my worry is that if I swap the naps around and let him catnap in the afternoon he won't do it. I could try though, at this stage I'd be willing to try anything!

[FPT23]

Hi there!

From my experience, NWs with a babbling baby means UT.

Have you tried or considered his afternoon nap AFTER the 2:30 school pickup? PD as soon as you get back??

Keep in mind this is a very trying age because babies begin to start wanting to transition to 1 nap a day but aren't fully ready to yet. So it can be tricky and things change around this time. Kind of like when things get challenging between the 5-6 mth stage too for the same reason... 3-2 nap transition. Here's a link that might help you if you'd like

10/11 month old sleep gone wonky? Read this first!

Let me know what you think! I'lol be back to respond and go in more detail soon
Keep us posted and many hugs. It's a strange time

xo

[SusieQue]

Thanks for the reply, he generally doesn't sleep well after picking up DS1 because he gets all excited to see him and does generally find a late nap hard. Plus I don't have time to cuddle off for a CN because I need to do dinner etc. I have started him in a routine of sorts in the last week, and it works pretty well in the day but we are still getting a NW (last night we had two). Here is our EASY this week:

WU 5.30 usually after 1 NW
E 6.30 7oz formula
E 7.30 Porridge
S 9.30-10am usually CN in car or pram
E 11.30 lunch
E 12.45 bottle 7oz
S 1-2.30 (roughly, sometimes less)
E 4.30 dinner
E 6pm 9oz formula then bed

Last night I put him down just after 6pm as he was really fussy after 5pm but I ended up having to cuddle him to sleep as he wouldn't settle. Then he woke up crying at 11pm, we have him Nurofen as I think he is teething but he was just wide awake and babbling for nearly two hours. Eventually fell asleep about 1.30am after being cuddled off, then woke again at 3.45. We gave him a bottle and he went back to sleep but woke for the day at 5.30.

This is another of our problems, the cuddling to sleep at night. He is an independent sleeper most of the time, he has a lovey that he uses when getting himself to sleep. But at night, or when he doesn't want to sleep, he stands in the cut and throws the lovey out and screams until you go in. If we lay hi back down he starts talking like its play time. I just don't know how to solve this issue!

Does anything stand out about the NW? I am thinking a later bedtime of 7 might be better? I think last night was definitely UT, the other NWs are usually around 3 or 4am. We are absolutely exhausted now and just don't know what else to do 😫

[FPT23]

Hi there. Were you able to read the link I provided you? It gets weird around this time so just hang in there, it will pass.

you mentioned he won't take a nap after school PU, but in your easy he took a long 2hr nap?

Honestly, best advice I can give is to ty and provide a long restorative first nap. That is generally the most important. Is there a way you can keep him from taking that CN in the car? Talking to him, lowering the window a tad, a toy? So he can take a longer more comfortable nap?

Again, this is a very tricky time. Many hugs. Has he recently began a new physical change? Crawling? Standing? ...I think he needs more A time and bit less day sleep. Over here, when NWs begin especially so early in the evening after BT, it's UT for us and less day sleep has helped. All babies are different of course. Something to think about

Here's another link with some sample routines and A times and see if helps any

chronological EASY samples, 10-12 months

I will also provide you with total day/night sleep link to keep as a resource too

Typical Amounts of Day and Night Sleep

Hope this all helps some! Sorry for the rough nights but this too shall pass

[SusieQue]

Thank you! He has been waking up pretty consistently the last few nights around 2.30am. The problem now is that he won't take a bottle, he just wants to be cuddled. Which is fine(ish) but when I go to put him back in his cot (seemingly asleep) he is wide awake, standing up and throwing his lovey out. If I try and pacify him in the cot he thinks it's play time and just doesn't settle. I'm sure we have to be more consistent with it but to be honest we are just so tired we're doing anything to get him back to sleep. The last couple of nights it has taken nearly two hours to get him to sleep as he starts crying as soon as we leave the room. I know he knows how to settle himself to sleep as he does it at bedtime and for most of his naps, so I'm not sure what the problem is. Yesterday he slept an hour in the morning and half an hour in the pram as we were out in the afternoon. I guess we just need to ride it out and hope that he goes back to sleeping through at some point!

[FPT23]

Oh I'm so sorry- NWs can def be rough.

From what you describe, he sounds UT. Hopefully a bit more awake time can help?

Keep us posted and best of luck.

[SusieQue]

Things are going from bad to worse now. I've bound myself to the house for the last two weeks to get him into a routine, hoping this would help things, but we're making no progress and I'm out of ideas (and patience!). He now wakes up any time between 12 and 3am, and instead of going to sleep with a cuddle in the chair as he was previously, it is taking up to 2 hours of walking, rocking you name it, to get him to sleep. When we sit down he starts fidgeting and fighting, I put him in his cot and try to soothe him there and he keeps rolling over or batting my hand away. I'm truly out of options now! Here is our routine for the past few days:

WU 5.30am
E 6am bottle
E 7.30 solids
S 9.30-10 in the car
E 11.30 solids (he's not a big eater though so sometimes he has nothing)
E bottle 12.30
S 1-2.30
E 4.30 solids - again, hit or miss
E 6.30 bottle then asleep by 6.45

The other day he napped in the car for 10 minutes at 9am after being awake since 5am. He was then at nursery until 11.30, I kept him awake until we got home and gave him a bottle (no lunch) and he was asleep from 12 until 2. We stupidly then out him to bed about 6.30, which was too early as he then woke up at 11.30pm and was 2 hours before he went back to sleep.

It looks to me like he can do crazy long awake times, but then I've been out in the car this morning and he fell asleep at 9 for 10 minutes then fell asleep on the way home and he's still asleep in the car seat now.

My question really is what are my options at the night wakings? Still cuddle him? I'm so worried we're creating a huge prop that we can't undo later. He is an independent sleeper most of the time, I put him down awake for his naps and at bedtime. It's just at night he can't seem to do it. I'm slowly unraveling and am now thinking that the only option is to leave him to cry, since he cries when we pick him up anyway, but I don't want to. He has a bit of a cold at the moment and we always medicate at bedtime and at the night wakings, but this has just been going on for months and I can't see an end in sight. Please help!

[Palmira78]

SusieQue, I sympathize so much with you. I have gone through similar issues myself.
Let me send you a big hug and tell you that you should be proud of yourself for trying so much to help your baby, and to get things back on track. I am sure that soon you will be getting results for sure. If possible try to hold on regarding letting him cry...

I am going to throw some ideas in case they help:
- Regarding the food. At this stage some babies require less calories since their growth rhythm starts to slow down (so do not be too worried about it). Also some LO are bored of bottles / or baby food and are not eating that well. Have you tried to feed him little pieces of plain cookies or fruit like grapes, melon, watermelon, bananas, avocado? They are not meant to substitute a full meal but they add some calories and meet the need of your LO for biting (useful when teething). In any case, if you offer food and your LO does not finish it / touch it, it is because he does not need it. Trust him. Trust his appetite.

- Regarding the NWs. Can you count with somebody else like a partner or family or friend to soothe your LO during some nights? My experience is that my DH has discovered new/better ways to calm down my DS. A different person gets different approach & attitude, and can provide you with some ideas special for your LO that you have not thought of. Every LO is different so you need to discover more efficient ways to sooth your LO. What worked for me will not necessary please your LO. Saying that, we have discovered that it is better not to take him from the cradle, so he gets lets distracted and goes back to sleep quicker.

I know it is discouraging putting so much effort to improve things and observing no change, still try to change things that you feel may be interfering... What are your thoughts?

[SusieQue]

Ah thank you nluno, I actually read your post after I posted this and a lot resonated with me! Regarding food, he won't take a spoon so we just give him pieces of food to eat, but it depends on the day as to whether he eats. Sometimes he eats loads and other times he won't even entertain putting it in his mouth!

DH is actually much better than I am at getting DS2 back to sleep, the problem is that he has to get up for work and I am on maternity leave so I feel really guilty that he has to get up (even though he offers and never complains, bless him) so I've tried resettling him the last few nights. I would like to keep him in the cot rather than getting him up, but when we do that he writhes all over the cot and starts talking, then he stands up and throws his lovey out. I tried just standing by the cot without engaging him and he was basically playing around for half an hour before I lost patience and walked out (and of course he went mental and DH had to pick up the pieces). I figure now that since it's already taking nearly two hours of rocking and walking him about, we may be better spending those two hours trying to settle him in the crib, I'm just not sure how to do it! We never had to do it with DS1 so I'm clueless! We would never leave him to cry alone, as he's a very cuddly baby and it would upset him so much, but it's just hard when I feel like our presence just works him up. If anyone has a settling guide or tips I would be so grateful to hear them!

[FPT23]

Hi! So sorry about that! It's so rough I know this! Hopefully it passes soon!

Here's a link of a method that might work for you

Getting back on track using Walk In/Walk Out (WI/WO)

...it's the method of walk in walk out. Give it a go?

10mths is tricky also since it's when they also slowly start to transition to 1 nap. Not that it will happen ANY time soon but around this time the transition can begin. There is a sleep regression during this time because of that, the new found mobility (standing, etc), seperation anxiety etc.. hang in there!

Maybe a push in A time? Is he tired enough at BT?

[Palmira78]

Hi SusieQue!
How is it going? I smiled when I read that all your NWs trouble is with DS2.
Guess what? The same for me. I had a DS1 textbook baby but almost an angel... and now once we thought we had the experience and that we knew... the challenge -> spiritedbaby.
I never had to do this stuff with my first baby either.
What are your thoughts with wi/wo? Will you try? I am going to wait a bit since I had some better nights that give me hope...

[SusieQue]

Thanks for the replies! He stayed at my mum's on Friday night and she said he woke at 2.30 and basically just wanted a cuddle until he fell asleep, but she said there was nothing physically wrong with him. He actually slept through on Saturday night, we heard him wake and grumble a bit but then he put himself back to sleep. Great! We thought, but last night he was awake at 11.45 and I cuddled him fir 30 minutes then put him back down (asleep) and he slept until 6 this morning. We have started doing a later 7pm BT which I think will start to help but he was sick at BT last night and very snotty today so we are just going to ha e to ride it out before trying WI/WO. I totally hear you, Nlundo, these perfect first babies have completely spoiled us! I keep saying if DS2 wasn't first he would definitely have been my last!

On the day he slept through the night he had two shorter naps through the day, but we tried the same yesterday and had an 11.45 WU so there doesn't seem to be a pattern. I do think he can do long A times so I'm going to work on pushing his first nap back each week and see how we go. I'm just looking forward to the toddler days when these naps stop, life becomes so much easier then!

[FPT23]

Hello!

Yes I hear you! but adore these moments (as best as you can ) ...they fly too quickly.

There is a sleep regression between the 10/11 mth. So much is happening physically and also emotionally. I agree in trying that method when he's feeling better.

In my experience and even being on the forums... it's usually almost, a need in A time push. With DS2, as soon as he fights BT or wakes shortly after or has NWs (usually our culprit) it's been UT. I push and he's out like a light all night. He's also going through the beginnings of seperation anxiety it seems. He just wants me there! Naps, he's fine. Come BT, he just gets so upset... until I laid him down and just kept my hand on him, he settled and went off with the sandman ...he recently needed a push himself after he had 2 NWs.. in which he was babbling and EWs with extreme happiness haha. It stopped after i pushed a bit for the next two days or so.

Hang in there and this is a tough age with so much happening. Positive vibes!

Xo