15 M & won't sleep! HELP!!

[kristeno]

My daughter is 15M & still wakes repeatedly during the night & will only sleep in increments once in our bed (because we're SO TIRED) or on the couch with my husband, causing her to sleep until 9/930 am sometimes. We've tried waking her early, 1 nap, 2 naps (seems to males for better naps, but no nighttime change), thought UT or OT, but don't know where to go at this point. We use Wake to sleep when we can, almost daily. Please help!!

Her day:

9: Wake
915: Nurse
10: Breakfast
1030-1: Play
1: Nap, 1 hr 15 min once in awhile, longer but no pattern
215-3: Milk & play
3: Lunch
330-7: Play
7: Dinner
730: Bath & bedtime routine
815: Nurse to sleep
830: In bed, asleep
1245: Wake, sometimes
2ish: Wake, husband spends 30-40 min, won't sleep
245ish: Ends up in our bed
345ish: Wakes up, playing, husband goes to couch with her
4-7: Sleeps on couch with daddy
7: Comes to bed with me
9ish: Awake for the day

For the first time, last night, my husband was so exhausted, he put her in her bed & let her cry, checking on her every 10 min. After about 45 min, she went to sleep & slept 4.5 hrs. I'm trying that again today with nap. Is this the best course of action at this point? We HATE CIO, but we're so desperate for change.

[becj86]

I think she's UT for that nap but OT at BT giving you those wakings. Do you have an ideal WU/BT? It can be worth thinking about compatability with school when she starts because you're setting up habits and they can be hard to change - no need to do it twice if once will do

That first A time of 4hr needs a littlw push, maybe try increasing by 15min every 4-5 days til the nap extends beyond 1:30.

I would suggest a catnap in the afternoon or shifting BT significantly earlier.

Some suggestions could be:
9 WU
1:15 nap
6 catnap for 30-45 min
8:30 asleep in bed for the night

Or
7 WU
12 - nap (may require resettling the first few days as she'll be OT)
6:30/7 BT

There are lots of ways to do routines at this age but I do think yours is at least partially a routine issue given how uneven  the A times are - 4hr then 6:15. The midnight waking is likely the OT and the wakings through the early morning are likely from that nap being too soon after WU.

[kristeno]

That's good info. I have wondered about both her being UT for first nap, she just always seems SO TIRED from not sleeping the night before. And her being OT for BT. Ideal WU is 7/730, ideal BT is 730/8. Honestly, whatever makes this kid sleep. Would we make this change by waking her up at 730?
Should we go ahead & try to work with her WU/BT the way it is & try to shift to earlier later on, using the naptimes you've suggested?

[becj86]

I would probably just bite the bullet and get up at 7 when she usually goes in to sleep with you and do nap around 12. You'd have to resettle the nap most likely for a few days til she gets used to it but it will be a quicker transition than shifting things slowly.

She will seem really tired because she is but if her sleep is always so disjointed, she won't get the good sleep she needs to be well rested anyway, yk. She's stuck in an UT/OT loop so you have to push the first A time to get a restorative nap to then yove her the best chance of sleeping well through the night.

[kristeno]

Yea, I have no problem with that!

I am wondering, though, we put her to sleep & put her in bed, asleep. At night, she nurses to sleep. We're trying to help her learn to soothe herself & put herself to sleep. Is this something we should do while we're correcting her routine or do that later? It always seems that she wakes up, crying, which wakes her all the way up & we have to put her back to sleep. Same goes especially in the middle of the night.

[becj86]

Yes, that will part of it too. You can reduce that assistance gradually if you like, by putting her down progressively less drowsy each day or you can add say brushing teeth between BF and sleep and soothe her with a hand on her back and some songs or a story or even a sleepy phrase if you want it to be a bit quicker. Remember you're changing the way she has gone to sleep for her whole life so she is likely to cry - change is hard at any age especially if you've never known any different. Stay with her and be consistent with your calming approach (make a plan you're comfortable with before you start so you aee less likely to waver/'give in') and she will find her way with time. The amount of time varies for every child, so I can't say she will be an independent sleeper in x number of days but appropriate firm boundaries lovingly and compassionately enforced will help. Changing tack will make the process take longer as she will wonder if it will change again, yk.