Help! Continue to try to skip the Night Feed or go back to BF during the night??

[leahlef]

Hi Everyone!  I just found this amazing forum.  My baby is just 5 months old and EBF.  She has been on an EASY routine since about 6 weeks old, when I went from thinking my baby is the most colicky fussy newborn to her much happier adorable self after reading and implementing BW.  (She starting sleeping beautifully during the night, although waking once or twice for a quick BF. I am really thankful and have recommended the book/method to many friends. 

Ten days ago after realizing that her NW were habitual and started increasing to twice during the night (after 10:30-11PM DF) I stopped feeding her and attended to her with PUPD and a bit of shush pat.   Now after reading a bit on the forum I'm wondering if I shouldn't have left good enough alone, since everything seems off kilter.  She awakens 40 min after falling asleep at BT and during many naps.  I have to admit, that during the night she doesn't seem very hungry or frustrated as she settles as soon as I pick her up.  I am unsure of if I should put her down as soon as she loudly changes her crying to a loud mantra which happens as soon as I pick her up, or wait until she settles somewhat better  and quieter - 2-3 minutes later.  I've tried both.. either one can take from 10 minutes to an hour+ of PUPD.    Mainly though, I did 10 days of this and don't know if I should continue with it or not. 

Her schedule during the day is quite textbook.. except for the evening.   She does sooth herself back to sleep during the day many times.
E - 7
A - 7:30
S- 9
E - 11
A- 11:30
S - 1
E - 3
A - 3:30
S - 5/5:30
E- 7
S - 8:15

DF - 10:30/11

last night she got up at 9, getting her back to sleep took until 10.. 10:15 she was crying again so she BF and fell promptly to sleep until 2am.  Was only up for about 5 min.  Then up again at 4 until 5:30.  She wasn't miserable, just kept trying to soothe and falling asleep, but not deep enough. Then she slept until 6:45 BF and was alert and happy if not a bit tired after 1.5 hrs.. she also had a hard night. Sorry, I am going on and on, but I'm trying to be as clear as possible.  Thanks in advance for any help I can get.

[michaeljacknnugg]

Many babies need more calories at around this time; they're coming up to needing solids but not quite there yet.

Mine also woke early in the evening and would mostly go back with a cuddle. If he was insistent or woke again 40 minutes later, that was a sign that he needed a feed.

Current thinking is that they need a night feed a lot longer than indicated in the books.

[leahlef]

Thanks for your reply. Yesterday she had a half hour catnap at 5 then BT at 7:30- earliest yet (the rest of day was like I posted yesterday) I was very surprised that she didn't get up 40 minutes later, but she was up 1.5hrs later..but was very easy to put back to sleep.  Then she awoke at 4am. I heard her try to soothe herself but at 4:20 her cry went from Mantra to demanding.  She settled instantly, but couldn't fall asleep.  By 5 am I decided to feed her just one side BF, but she really wanted more and I needed to do a full feeding (a sign she was hungry?) After the feeding she went into her crib nicely.  The problem I have is that she doesn't awake for a 7/730 feed (before I need to be busy with my other small children.) I woke her up and fed her at 8 so as not to throw the schedule off that much again at nights, but besides for being a very hard time to feed she played around a bit and bit me (clamps gums)..which she does lately when she isnt very hungry.  Also, because I woke her her A will probably be shorter..she looks ery tired now at 9.   So what do I do now? 

[michaeljacknnugg]

I'm afraid I'm not a good person to help on routines, mine have both been very LSN and that's skewed my perception of what's normal. DS2 was starting to drop the catnap by 5mo.

Wet night feeds, have you tried skipping the dream feed? It might be that she likes to go a long stretch at some point, and that the dream feed is shifting that to the early hours.

We were on 2-3 night feeds at 5 mo and they naturally decreased as solids took over. He eats LOADS!!! And still has a night feed at 12mo!

[becj86]

I think you probably do need to increase those A times - 2hr is average at 4 months but by 6 months, average is 2"45 tp 3hr, so that's an increase of ~15min A time every fortnight or thereabouts.

Its absolutely normal at this age to need feeds at night, so I would be feeding if she's been more than 4hr between feeds. Those shortly-after-bedtime wakings tend to be a sign of being OT at BT, so going to bed that bit earlier is likely the reason she didn't wake last night

[leahlef]

Thank you. I will try to do that - increase A times. Waking her this morning must have messed up her naps too.. I stretched her A times to 2 hours but she must have beem OT because she woke up @ time after 40 minutes.  In the morning I was able to put her back to sleep but not in the afternoon.   Is it advisable to then give an earlier catnap  becausr she is really tired and feed to 3 hours so that we can get an earlier bedtime again?

[becj86]

I stretched her A times to 2 hours but she must have beem OT because she woke up @ time after 40 minutes.

A 40min nap is more often undertired than overtired - extending the A time will help with that. Its the waking within less than 3hr of bedtime that tends to be OT.

[leahlef]

Is it advisable to then give an earlier catnap  becausr she is really tired and feed to 3 hours so that we can get an earlier bedtime again?
                     
This happened again last night.  She woke up at 4:30am and then awoke 7:30AM but was ready to eat at 8:30AM.  Is it advisable to move back to 3 hours so her bedtime isn't at 9PM because of this? 
                  
                  
                     
                     
                     
                        

[becj86]

The bedtime feed can be just before bedtime. Its not drastically important that there's a big gap of time between the last afternoon feed and BT feed.

[leahlef]

Thank you!