How to eliminate that last night feed/waking please :)

[ladymugg]

Have had some great tips from my LO so far from you lovely mamas.  This latest question is a continuation of one I had a few weeks ago in a separate section. 

My DS is 8 months old (today - yay!).  And he is a great napper during the day.  EASY looks like this:

6 am WU - bottle
7.30/8am breakfast
9/9.30 am - nap (earlier if he wakes before 6 am, 9 am is the earliest I will let him go down)
11.30 am WU - bottle
12.30/1pm lunch
2.30 pm - nap
4 pm - WU - bottle
5 pm - dinner
6.30 pm - bed
Wakes in the night for a feed usually around 1am (ish).  Used to be 3.30/4 am which I was getting excited about for a minute there, but then he started going earlier.

He has never liked a dream feed.  Any ideas on what I should be doing for this night feed?  He definitely drains a whole bottle (200-240ml/7 or 8 oz).  Now he is 8 months old I feel like maybe it is time for me to start trying to get that night sleep out of here, this tired mama (OK I know it is only one night waking but I'm still allowed to be over it) needs a little more sleep. 

Should I be reducing the bottle and trying to get him to drink and eat more during the day?  He is a great eater and bottle taker (formula) but there is only so much I can feed this guy! 

Thanks so much. 

[jessmum46]

How much milk does he take in the daytime?  At this age I would have thought that as long as he is having plenty of daytime milk that you could just gradually reduce the amount you offer at night and then once you get down to an oz or so just settle with shh pat or a cuddle instead. 

When he wakes at 1am ish is he happy or awake for a long time?  I'm just wondering as his A times are on the shorter end for 8 months and it could be a little more A time in the day may help get a sounder sleep at night too

[ladymugg]

Thanks jessmum46.

He has quite a bit of milk in the daytime, I'd say anywhere around 900ml total (about 32-35oz) plus 3 generous meals of solids.

I had stretched his A times a bit maybe 3 weeks ago as he was definitely only doing 2.5-3 hours but maybe I should just go in on 4 hours A time.  I tried this today (actually was over 4) for his first nap, so lets see how we go.  This means I am thinking he will move to:

- first nap 10am
- sleep until 12/12.30pm
- second nap 4 pm (catnap 45 mins?)
- bedtime 6.30pm still

Thoughts on that?  I think I neglected to add in my first post that he has started in the last week or so also waking at 4 am and not settling without a very small bottle.  I hate that I've succumbed to this and hopefully it isn't a stuck habit

Hopefully I can get that night bottle pushed to 3/4 am by increasing A times and then slowly reduce volume, rather than it being at around 12/1am - would that be what you might do?   To answer your question he is definitely happy at 1 am, stays awake not too long but is definitely alert.  Super alert at this new 4 am wake up too :/ 

Thanks so much! 

[jessmum46]

That's a good intake   Yes I would say weaning the night feed is reasonable at this point. 

What time is his WU time with the above routine?  Just to say when stretching A times 3 to 4h is quite a jump - generally we'd recommend you go slowly, maybe 10-15 mins every few days or so to give him time to adjust x

[ladymugg]

WU time is usually 6 am but sometimes 5... so yeah...

Happy to do it gradually... today stretched first nap to 4 hours but second nap still had 3 hours A time prior.  Will play by ear see how grumpy he gets   thanks!  Let's see how tonight goes.   9.35pm here now so wish me luck! 

Thank you.

[jessmum46]

Good luck!!

[ladymugg]

Argh!

A few days now of making sure those naps are limited to about 3-3.5 hours total/day... and awake time is longer.  But still with what is seemingly now an ingrained 12.30 am WU for a feed and another WU at either 4 am (will go back to sleep after a bottle) or 5 am.  The 4/5am one definitely chatting and babbling, the 12.30 am one, happy but whingey...

What am I doing wrong - what have I done to make this go backward!?! 

[ladymugg]

Not sure what else to do... have definitely pushed A times to around 3.5hrs.  Has been teething but not longer than this issue had been around. 

Has been waking 12/1am (tonight was 11pm!)... have tried to resettle rather than feed (he's still awake now).  He isn't crying just doing this grunty whinge thing.  I don't think he will respond to PU/PD.  Have been feeding him when he wakes bit that has increased his night feeding from one to two. 

Please help!

[jessmum46]

If he's just whinging what about just ignoring him?  You don't need to 'put' him back to sleep - honestly if he's not upset I'd leave him to it and hopefully he'll figure it out.  If he gets upset and needs help then I would pick a settling method (my preferred was just sitting next to the cot with a hand on LO saying 'shhh') and stick it out until he goes back off.

What does his routine look like with 3.5h A times?

[ladymugg]

Thanks... have definitely tried leaving him (on many many occasions). 

Anyway last night I tried for an hour to get him back to sleep before he had a short feed of about 50ml which he settled after.  I tried shh pat, PU/PD, leaving him, sitting in the room.  Tried pain relief in case it was his teeth bothering him. 

He is whinging but also very active and awake.  So its periods of quiet but alertness, sometimes talking/chatting and then off and on whinging/grunting. If I go to do PU/PD he just gets excited to see me, waves his arms around and squeals with delight.

My daughter was never like this!  Could just either leave her or PU/PD!

Maybe I just need to leave him.  I hate the idea of feeding him because I don't think he needs it but just caving because we get tired.  I know, everyone gets tired and I am prepared to do some hard yards but after an hour I worry that a really awake night will be curtains for the next day in terms of his general routine.

I guess I can try maybe pushing that A time to 4 hours.  Seems a bit high considering he struggles to make 3.5 but maybe that is just what I got to do. 

[jessmum46]

I wouldn't jump to that necessarily.  Can you actually post his routine?  I'm wondering if his A times aren't the problem but rather too much daytime sleep?

[ladymugg]

OK

This has been what he has been doing:

6am WU
9/9.30 am S
11.30 am WU
2.30pm S
3.30pm WU
6.30 pm BT
Then the two wakeups usually 12.30/1am and then 4 am

Yesterday pushed the first nap to 10 am and then the second to 3.15pm and only one wakeup at 4 am, that 12.30 am WU didn't happen.  Will be a little different today as have a morning appointment around 10 am so will just give a quick catnap around 9 am and try for a longer sleep this afternoon, but hopefully can start a pattern going.

[jessmum46]

That sounds promising   Keep us posted with how it's working out x

[ladymugg]

So far so good.  An earlier waking last night but I think that was teething related. 

[jessmum46]