Taking big bottles at night but only 2oz at daytime feeds!

[annakenrick]

Hello, I hope you can help as going slightly crazy!
I have a number of problems at the moment and don't know where to start!
My 11 week old is now only eating 2/3 oz at each feed during the day despite my best efforts to get as much down him as possible. I think he would go happily 4 hours between feeds but I'm keeping to 3hrs easy due to his age.  However at night he is feeding every 2.5 hrs and sucking 4/5 oz down so he's seems to be eating more at night! How do I tackle this??
He also wakes after 45 mins and I think he is looking for the bottle to suck on to get back to sleep! We sometimes use a dummy which calms  him but I think he's looking for that but he can't keep it in!
Need to tackle that too but will put that on sleep forum!!
Feel like I'm stuck in a dark tunnel and despite my best efforts nothing is working!! Starting to get me down! Every night is same waking after an hr and half or 45mins!!
I hope someone has some tips for me as driving myself and husband mad!

[Lolly]

Ok -sounds like you have day and night mixed up and a bit of day snacking!

It's quite common for formula fed babies to go to 4 hourly feeds before they are up for a proper 4 hour EASY, so I would start leaving 4 hours during the day so that he will get more hungry and take better feeds. If you can get better feeds during the day he should take less during the night. If he is able to go 3-4 hours during the day, he can go that long at night too - especially if he is taking bigger feeds! Do you try to resettle first or do you just feed when he wakes?

If you move to 4 hour feeds you won't get a true EASY for another few weeks until his A times catch up - can you give me a typical day for now with Eat, Activity and sleep times? If he is waking at 45 mins it usually means he needs a bit more A time. The only think to watch is that you don't feed to sleep if an E comes right before a S.

Ok, so let him go 4 hours during the day and hopefully he will take bigger feeds - which flow teat are you using at the moment? During the night don't feed sooner than 4 hours and try and re-settle if he wakes before a feed time.

What do you think? Oh and {{HUG}}!

Laura

[annakenrick]

Hi Laura thanks so much for your help! I tried 3.5 glfeeding yesterday and that worked really well with him taking 5 oz at most feeds. The night was still bad though which was very disappointing! I think he has got so used to waking up and using a dummy or bottle to get back to sleep that we may have to use PUPD very soon! He also had bad wind and abit of a reflux!! Too much going on!
I think we should go cold turkey on dummy and and as you said not try to feed before 4 hrs at night and use PU PD it's going to be hard!!
Any thoughts or advice?

[Lolly]

He also had bad wind and abit of a reflux!! Too much going on!

Ah ok - that would have been useful to know! Taking bigger feeds at night is typical of reflux - how is it being treated? Given your nights aren't great it could be the reflux causing problems.

I think we should go cold turkey on dummy and and as you said not try to feed before 4 hrs at night and use PU PD it's going to be hard!!
Any thoughts or advice?

I wouldn't ditch the dummy to be honest, sucking a dummy helps the reflux as the swallowing helps keep the acid down. Have you tried ssh/pat at all? If you haven't that's the first thing to try as PU/PD should be used when you have tried other things. PU/PD isn't greta for refluxers either as it can aggravate reflux - all the up and down sloshes the acid around. He's also a touch young, PU/PD is better for babies over 4 months.

Good you have got bigger feeds in the day though! That's progress, it will take a while to have an impact on the nights, you won't get instant results so keep at it.

Laura

[annakenrick]

Hi Laura

Thanks for your reply. Yes he ate great yesterday but then we had an awful night with him awake every 30mins! It was terrible! Maybe it is reflux, we are giving him gaviacon in some feeds.
Maybe I should take him to doctor and see what else could they do. His stomach is growling and it sounds like he is hungry but then he only takes 2oz and some of night feeds now! Maybe it's wind not hunger we can hear. Ahhhh going mad with sleep deprivation and the list of what it could be!
We are going to try and get him to go 3/3.5 hrs before feeds at night as that is what he can do at daytime.

[Lolly]

I would go back to the Dr - waking so frequently is a sign of discomfort.

Infant gaviscon is pretty useless stuff. It's a stomach stabiliser so all it does is separate out of the milk to form a "raft" over the stomach contents to stop them being refluxed up. It's not a medication as it doesn't do anything to stop acid production or neutralise it. After gaviscon the next med is usually ranitidine (zantac) which is dosed for weight, this reduces acid by a considerable amount and some babies do well on it. My two both had this and needed the full dose for their weight for it to work properly.

Have you got the cot elevated? That can help a lot as does keeping them upright for about 20 - 30 mins after a feed.

Laura

[annakenrick]

Hi Laura
Going to ring doctors tomorrow.
Yes we have cot elevated. He seems to be sicking up more this week. The last few days he has gone back to small feeds during the day. I'm going round in circles!! 
He can't sleep more than 2hrs after a feed during night and back to wanting to feed every2.5/3 hrs despite doing longer in day!
Shall I try and restrict how much he eats at the 130am feed and try and wean hi off it so he eats better in day?
Shall we try and only feed him every 4 hrs at night and do everything we can to settle him!

[mariarico]

Hi,
I'm not sure if you are willing to try homeopathics, but I use them for my baby since he was 6 weeksand it has helped his reflux. If you type in online search "nat phos 6x for baby reflux" you will find some stuff...or you can see a homeopathic dr.
The typical baby dose that was recommended to me was 1/2 tablet before feed and the other half after the feed-- crushed and mixed with little water
Also, you may want to check the formula to see if he's sensitive or allergic to it, maybe try an easier to digest formula.

[hynygirl]

Hello,

Sorry to hijack your post annakenrick.  This same thing has been my ongoing issue with my now 5 month old since she was about 3.5 months.  Somedays I feel like we are having success and other days I feel like we are getting nowhere!

@mariarico I just discovered Nat Phos 6x this week and have been using it for 3 days.  She was on prevacid but it isn't working great and I didn't think her reflux was overly bad until she projectile vomited (for the first time) the other day.  So I started to look for alternatives as I prefer natural solutions to the possible side affects of rx.  It seems to be helping, things are getting back under control but we're still not quite back to normal.  How long did it take to work for your baby?
I have been trying to transition to 4 hour but we're struggling because she only takes small feeds during the day and is hungry sooner.  How do people with reflux baby's manage this with EASY?? I really can't figure it out   She will take only 2.5-3oz during the day and 4oz in the night.  I need to figure out how to up her daytime intake or how to manage a schedule where she is on 4 hour sleep and shorter time between eating??
I feel completely lost.

[mariarico]

Hynygirl- it took maybe about a week, are you doing it with every feed? No more than 6 tablets in a 24 hr period

Mine is still fighting to drink but he wants to take breaks...so he'll drink 2.5 oz then 30 min later he'll do the other 2.5 but I have to walk around the room as he drinks lol I guess it distracts him lol

We are now having nighttime sleep issues-- maybe developmental as people are telling me between 4-5 months.

[hynygirl]

Thank you for your quick response! I've just been doing a 1/2 tablet after she eats but will do 1/2 before and 1/2 after.  I am doing it for each feed.  I've started introducing solids as well, she is sitting up on her own and showing signs so I'm hoping with solids it will help the reflux. 
I find my daughter is easily distracted while eating too! I'm not sure if you've heard of the wonder weeks.. based on developmental leaps. I've found it helpful to understand when she is going through fussy phases.  She's currently in her "5th leap".  Which isn't helping things right now!  Hopefully things get better for you! The only thing that keeps me going is that I have a 3.5 year old that is an awesome sleeper and I believe it's due to the EASY routine we implemented when she was a baby! She slept through the night at 4months though... reflux is so frustrating!