Author Topic: 5 month pupd & nap extensions  (Read 2800 times)

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Offline Pearceuccs

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5 month pupd & nap extensions
« on: February 14, 2017, 19:31:25 pm »
Hi. My lo is almost 5 month old and is a bad sleeper all around. He wakes up multiple times a night and takes 35 min nap. I've tried w2s prob 50 times at different minutes and it's only worked a handful of times. Patting during the transition no longer works. He will wake up happy. I pick him up and hold him and after 5-10 he will go back to sleep. I'll hold him for 15 min then put bAck to sleep to get a 1-1.5 hr nap total. I've just started today to pick him up at 25min and hold him before he wakes up so he hopefully learns to keep sleeping. Is this a prop since he doesn't actually wake up? The holding helps him from flailing awake ( he is still mostly swaddled). This seems to be working since he doesn't wake up or open his eyes and I get over a hour nap. When he goes to bed around 630 he wakes like always But is very upset after 35 min and continues to wake frequently after. I dreamfeed him at 930. Then he continues to wake every couple of hours I've weened his nighttime feedings away so he doesn't eat at night anymore as of tonight. I want to do pupd he goes to sleep on his own for naps and bedtime. It just seems like he can't get BACK TO SLEEP. On his own. But I want to keep holding for naps. Since he wakes happy pupd doesn't seem like it'd be effective during the day. He EBF 3.5 hr easy schedule but very flexible with times though based on naps.  Eating 7 1030 2 5 7 with dreamfeed. I split last feeding upon awakening and before bed.

Offline becj86

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Re: 5 month pupd & nap extensions
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2017, 09:13:53 am »
Hi, Welcome to BW.

It sounds to me like your baby might not be tired enough to sleep a long nap and might be getting overtired by the end of the day (hence the wakeup shortly after bedtime).

Can you please write out a typical day (or yesterday, if they're all over the shop) in EAS format so we can help, eg.
7 - wake, BF
9 - sleep
9:30 - wake
10 - BF
etc.

As a BF baby, it would still be well within normal range to need two night feeds at this age. Can you clarify if LO has just turned 5 months or is nearly 6 months - that can make a big difference too.

Offline Pearceuccs

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Re: 5 month pupd & nap extensions
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2017, 15:32:43 pm »

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Re: 5 month pupd & nap extensions
« Reply #2 on: Today at 15:19:26 »
Quote (selected)ModifyRemove
This is from Sunday
708 wake bf
845 sleep till 1012 (1hr27min)
1025 bf
1212 sleep till 120 (1 hr 8min)
130 bf
320 sleep till 455 (1 hr 35min)
5 bf
615 bf
630 bedtime
Awake a few times
915 dreamfeed

He is 21 weeks. His naps he would wake up after 35 min and I would rock back to sleep to achieve the long naps.

I read Tracy's book yesterday. I now see that I need to move to a 4 hr routine which seems only possible if I extend his naps like I am. I did pupd last night.im just confused on what to do about his naps. I used to Rock back to sleep once he woke... the last couple days I've been rocking him at 25 min before he wakes to see if that helps him learn. I hold for 20 then put him down so he's past his transition. Then I thought if he woke shortly after I could pupd then.

Offline becj86

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Re: 5 month pupd & nap extensions
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2017, 20:36:44 pm »
I now see that I need to move to a 4 hr routine which seems only possible if I extend his naps like I am.
His naps will likely naturally extend if you keep him awake a little longer. I'd shoot for 2hr awake for the next few days and be ready to resettle as you have been doing if necessary. If you're still having to resettle after 45min-1:15 or sleep, I would then increase awake time to 2hr15 and see how he goes with that. You could end up at 2:30 or even 2:45 awake time before you see good naps.

Instead of rocking at 25min, you could do hold through the jolts - did you read about that?

I hold for 20 then put him down so he's past his transition. Then I thought if he woke shortly after I could pupd then.
THing is, if you pick him up at 25min and hold for 20min, you put him down when he's transitioning to his next sleep cycle and is in light sleep again. I think if you leave him lying down in his bed and just shush/pat or hold through the jolts, you may well extend the nap and help him learn more that he can sleep in his bed rather than that he needs to be picked up to fall asleep. I certainly think cuddling him for 20min, putting him down then doing PUPD if he wakes shortly thereafter is unfair given he is likely undertired and not needing a full long nap anyway.

That first awake time is the one I'd push first - I think your after bed wakings could be either:
- he's shifted his day and treats that first nap as part of his night still, so that first part of what you're calling night is more dozing than sleeping
- he's overtired (though I think this is less likely unless his sleep quality is poor during those naps.

Long story short: Push the awake times to 2hr for a couple of days, then extend again by 15min. That should help.

Offline Pearceuccs

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Re: 5 month pupd & nap extensions
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2017, 18:07:01 pm »
I had httj in the past but it stopped working (probably because of A time) and resorted to actual hold him through that part and that worked since he wouldn't wake up during or when I put him back down. But I can see how httj would be better in the hopes you can keep doing less and less.

I have increased his A time to 2 hours and httj worked for his first nap at 9am today. Though he did wake after 1hr 20 min. This time frame is a trend I've noticed for him.  So his E time will 3.5 hour. So it sounds like keep doing this for a few days and push his A time to 2 15 so that he will get past the 1hr 20 min time too? do I try to httj at 1hr 20 again or will just an increased A time solve that?

Thanks!

Offline becj86

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Re: 5 month pupd & nap extensions
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2017, 20:04:36 pm »
2hr is too short for him probably, so don't try to make him sleep longer than that - that's just a recipe for frustration for you both. Increased A time will solve that.

Offline Pearceuccs

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Re: 5 month pupd & nap extensions
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2017, 20:27:35 pm »
He seems really tired by 2 hours but I'll just have to push it in a few days it sounds like and he will get used to it? Httj did not work for the second nap. I had to pat him on his side at 31 minutes. He woke up happy but did go back to sleep very easy with patting.

Offline becj86

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Re: 5 month pupd & nap extensions
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2017, 02:19:27 am »
Yes, he will seem tired because he is used to shorter A times. The 30min waking easily resettled was probably a tpuch of OT from shorter nap and longer A time. Just means you've pushed far enough for now. Give it a couple of days before pushing again.

Offline Pearceuccs

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Re: 5 month pupd & nap extensions
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2017, 10:59:13 am »
7 wake/bf
845 bf
910 nap for 1hr22min
1030 wake/bf
100 nap for 1hr23min
225 wake/bf
445 nap for 1hr
545 wake/bf
730 bf & Bedtime
1000 dreamfeed

So here's the update. I have tried to extend waketimes. I have tried extending the morning wake time to 2.5 hours for a couple days but he ends up being really fussy for the last 30 min and hysterical when put in the bed the last time I tried it and it didn't help push him for a longer nap. He usually does 1hr to 1.25 hours only that nap. I've had more success with the second nap with 1hr30min sometimes. So I don't know how beneficial it is at this point to have a grumpy tired baby so I've been letting him go to bed a touch after 2 hr depending on his mood for the first nap then having him go to bed 2.5 hrs before the second nap. 

Side note... I strarted putting him on his stomach to sleep and I don't have to httj anymore and now he sleeps all night! No more waking up 30 min after bedtime and he sleeps from his dreamfeed most of the time. Sometimes he cries for a couple minutes during the night but puts himself back to sleep or with just a few min of patting. So that has dramatically helped him nap without waking up from jolts.

 I started feeding him before his first two naps because I read on here that bf babies don't usually go to 4 hour schedules.  So 1. How's my schedule with so much freq  feeding now. Should I cut back?  2. Should I try longer to get him to nap longer or is 1hr 20 min okay?

Offline becj86

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Re: 5 month pupd & nap extensions
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2017, 11:22:09 am »
1hr20 is a touch UT for most babies but yours may just have a slightly shorter than average sleep cycle in which case its fine. If LO is happy and sleeping better at night, then I'd leave it as is. If you start getting lots of happy wakings in the early hours of the morning, you know that first A time is too short and needs extending even if LO is cranky.

Just have to let you know that putting LO down to sleep on their tummy is not in accordance with SIDS prevention guidelines - you know your baby best, of course, but must point that out.

You might find you can move the BFs closer together so you've got more of a topup than another feed, so:
7am - BF
7:45/8am BF
9:10 - nap
10:30 - BF
This means LO is going a little longer without a feed and is less likely to get into a snacking pattern and will take good feeds. Its also easy to then change out a topup BF for solids in a month or so when you start solids :)
Having said that, the longest you'd be asking him to go with 2hr A time and 1:30 nap is 3.5hr which is doable for most babies this age.