Almost 6 months up every 2.5-3.5 hours

[bbjmom]

Below is my schedule.  I'm struggling to pick the right bed time: tried 6:30, 7, 7:30 and baby would wake up every hour after bedtime.  He also never drinks enough milk before 7:30pm and this has poor weight gain.  I now feed him close to 8pm and put to bed shortly afterwards and he would sleep till 11/11:30pm for a wake/DF.  However, he is usually not that hungry and would only nurse one side.  He won't take bottle at DF!

I don't know want to do.  His NW may be due to overtired but earlier bedtime means not enough calories and hourly wakings!

Schedule

7:30 Up, Nurse
8:30 Solid
9:00 Nurse/bottle milk
10:00 Nap
12:00 Up, Bottle bm (usually doesn't drink enough)
12:30 Bottle bm ( attempts to feed more) + solids
2:30 Nap
4:30 Up, Bottle bm
5:00 Bottle bm
5:30 solids
6:00 bath
6:30 Quiet Play
7:00 Bedtime routine
7:30 Bottle bm / nurse
8:00 Bedtime
11:30 DF / wake feed
3:00 Nurse / bottle bm
5:00 Rock to sleep
6:00 Nurse / bottle bm
7:30 Up

You can see I'm exhausted!  Appreciate any yelp!

[jessmum46]

Hi there   Does your LO go to sleep independently - i.e. going from fully awake to asleep on his own without help or intervention from you?

How do you resettle him at night wakings?

Looking at the routine I'd say if anything a bit too much daytime sleep - 4h in a 12.5h day is expecting him to sleep a total of 15.5h in 24 which may not be realistic for many babies, though for some it might be ok.  Perhaps (presuming he is an independent sleeper) you could try pushing the first 2 A times closer to 3h (slowly, a few mins every few days) and see if that helps?  If he is not sleeping independently however or is dependent on a prop at night wakings I would tackle that first before tweaking the routine x

[bbjmom]

Thanks for your response!  My LO can put himself to sleep during naps most of the time but never at night!  Very strange!  At night when he woke up we had to do one of the followings: rock the bed, pick up and rock, bottle feed or nurse.  Usually easier at the beginning of the night and much harder after 4:30am.  Out of exhaustion(this is my third!) we tried CIO but he cried from 2-7am the longest!  His weight gain is not ideal and i don't have heart to let him cry anymore so I go back to feed him at night and he is always up twice between 11-12:30, then 3am,4:30 and 6. It's very crazy!

I wonder how can I really teach him to self-sooth.  I still swaddle him.  Debating if I should give him one arm.  I tried that tonight at bedtime and gave him lovely and pacifier.  He did play quietly in the crib for a while but cried when he got too tired and I still ended up feeding him again so he would go down. 

Really hope he can just gradually consolidate his feeding but it doesn't look like it will happen I'm lost!!

[Buntybear]

Hi - you are on 3 solid meals a day now.... Is this because he wasn't drinking his milk or do you think this amount could be interfering with his hunger for the milk?

I would also suggest pushing your A times out a bit now during the day.

I am sure you have seen these but if not!.....

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

Sample EASY Routines from 0 - 13mths+

[bbjmom]

Yes we are on more solids because LO doesn't like drinking milk.  We add milk to solids to get him to take mora.  Such a pain.  He does drink more if I let him drink right before bed, swaddles and with white noise.  He definitely still associates drinking milk and sleep.  I've tried hard to break that and only led to low weight gain.  Very frustrated.

[jessmum46]

Hi again, just wanted to ask a little more about his weight gain.  Is it something his doctor has been concerned about?  Or is it more something that has been a worry for you?  Hope you don't mind me asking - it just can affect what we might advise in terms of feeds.  Broadly speaking though at this age milk will have far more calories than any solids and feeding too much in the way of solids can adversely affect milk consumption and therefore calorie intake.  What sort of volumes of milk is he actually managing to take in daytime hours?  And then how much overnight?  (Appreciate you sometimes nurse but what would be typical bottle amounts?)

[*Ali*]

We don't advising leaving baby to cry at all. We believe it breaks the bond of trust and if you've done it, especially for long periods (5hrs 😯 Did I read that right?) you will need to work on rebuilding that trust so he knows you'll be there for him every time he cries. There are FAQs on the Sleep FAQ board about why CIO really isn't a good idea.

If he has weight issues then you need to focus on the feeding and not sleep training at all. Is there a particular reason you are giving the milk in bottles and not just nursing directly? I'm thinking all the pumping and making bottles must be a lot of effort for you and would make any exhaustion worse, no? Personally I would be nursing him at bedtime, even to sleep, since you say he takes more at those times. Any attempt at sleep training should not be allowed to have a negative effect on his milk intake.

[bbjmom]

I didn't want to leave baby to cry either.  I have a fulltime job and was simply exhausted one night and gave that a try per a doctor's recommendation.   It was two months ago I believe we have rebuilt the trust.  Baby can go down to sleep by himself half of the time now.

The weight gain concern comes from the doctor.  My LO was born at more than 50% but now at 5%. 

I did nurse him to sleep last night and I did that at 8p, 11:30, 2:45p, 5:45a, 6:30a, 7:30a.   He didn't drink much at 7:30am up time.  My nanny/mom tried feeding him afterwards and couldn't get him to drink until 9:30am which is the time for nap.  So he ended up doing E A E S.   This happens a lot - when I nurse at night he simple eats less during the day.  That's the only reason I want to sleep-train him.

During the day its hard to get him to take more than 16 oz.  I work full-time so my mom gives bottle and my LO only ever drinks 4oz straight, usually just 3 oz sometimes even less.  We always have to push hard to get him to drink 5-6 oz between naps. 

I really don't know how you all put LOs to E A S Y when they drink so much at night that they don't want to drink when wake up.  What's the trick?

Also, I wonder how LO can really develop self-soothing skills when he is completely swaddled.  I tried giving him one arm and that didn't help but I wonder if I should try longer.   Anyone has a 7 months old who sleeps better when unswaddled? 

Appreciate any tips on training baby to self-sooth!

[*Ali*]

Yes,  it's awful some doctors are still advising CIO in light of all the research about the damage it does. 

Breastfed babies do tend to take less milk from a bottle than a formula fed baby would.  It's a more natural way of eating as breast milk is digested within an hour or two. 16oz is good. The normal range for a BF baby to take in 24hrs is 19-32oz so he's probably easily getting that with nursing sessions too. You can include any breastmilk in food too.

It's really common for breastfed babies to wake lots at night when mothers are back at work.  It's the way they get their fill of the comfort and connection they don't necessarily get from another caregiver offering a bottle. It also allows for feedback to your breasts to produce the antibodies to any bacteria in their saliva.  It's called reverse cycling.  There's more info about it here http://kellymom.com/bf/normal/reverse-cycling/

Is LO desperate to feed at 7.30am or could you delay that feed a little so he's more hungry? Lots of ebf babies never make it to 4hr feeds and require top ups until they're established on solid food. Or does he really want the milk at 9.30? Would be perhaps prefer to eat after his nap instead?

[bbjmom]

I don't mind feeding baby 1-2 times at night but I was up five times the night before and seven times last night!  Baby is so tired too.  No one wins!! I don't know what to do!!!

[ginger428]

What happened during the night after he finally fell asleep at 11?

To summarize what you wrote on the new thread-

Started Pu/pd
Baby refused bottle right before
He used to drink after being in bed, now you want to break that association

[bbjmom]

After LO is asleep at 11pm he would wake up again at midnight, then 2/3 am, then 4/5 am..

[*Ali*]

I don't know if you read the link I posted above but if he is reverse cycling to get the comfort and closeness because he's away from you all day, have you considered co-sleeping to meet that need?  Then he might not need to disturb you with so many requests for feeds. I know it's not for everyone but it's just an idea.