How to encourage independent naps

[J-mum]

Hi.
I have a gorgeous 10week old who until the last few weeks was a rubbish daytime napper (due to reflux, which is now under control) but now dd will let me know when she's tired and ready for sleep. She will go to sleep quite easily (most of the time) but only if held. I have tried pat shush with no success, baby seems to hate it and I have a bad back so end up in agony bent over the crib so I equally hate it.

I have tried countless times to put her down drowsy but awake but as soon as she's down it's like a switch is flipped and she is wide awake smiling and blabbering and has to be lifted up to get back over.
She seems a light sleeper during the day and when she's asleep I can't move her to crib and have her stay asleep.
She usually wakes within 10mins of being put down, if not straight away. 

I love snuggling up with her at naps as I know she won't need me forever and she's only this little once but I could do with her being able to go down for naps too.
I babysit my toddler niece alot, it's not fair to her not to get any proper attention. Also baby sometimes gets a heat/sweat rash on her neck from being on me and with summer coming I don't want her to be too hot.
At the moment I have a bad cough, each time I cough it makes baby stir and I worry about her catching it from me.

Any tips on how to help my baby either go to sleep in the crib or get into a deep enough sleep so I can lay her down once asleep.

She sleeps well at night, in a pitch black room next to my bed. Daytime naps are in the living room.

Thanks

[creations]

Hi there
What you describe, LO waking either immediately or within 10 mins of being put down, is exactly what Tracy described in her description of how to shush/pat.  LO wakes because shush/pat needs to continue for 20 mins after LO is sleeping or if LO is put down asleep then for 20 mins after being put down. This is to see her through to the deep sleep phase, any time before and she is in light sleep so is easily disturbed.  Unfortunately sleep training does take a lot of time and effort and it can be very uncomfortable if you are leaning over a cot.

A couple of things I noticed with my own DS when he was little:
- he needed to being in the cot before the seven mile stare stage of falling to sleep (if you read the description of falling to sleep this stage is before nodding eyes). This was because he used the seven mile stare as a focus and if his position (and view) changed at any point he then had to find a new thing to stare at and the whole process had to start again.
With mine, he would only relax with one view in place (looking over my shoulder at a strong contrast of dark/light which was a tall plant near a light wall) and no other view worked, this was very unhelpful for sleep training as it was nowhere near his day cot (also in the living room at that point).  It took additional time/effort to shift him to a place where he could go into the seven mile stare at something which would still be there when he was nodding, when he fell asleep and when he woke, this meant he had continuity and it adds to the sense of safety and comfort.
Babies see strong tonal contrast easier than various colours, I attached a few computer pint outs of black and white geometric shapes to the side of his day cot for him to focus on - and importantly I put him down before his stare began.

- At 10 wks, the same age as your LO, mine suddenly refused to sleep in the day cot in the living room. I had a couple of days with him not sleeping and I was so confused as he had been sleeping well and was still sleeping well at night upstairs in his night bed.  Then, ready to try anything, I took him upstairs. He stopped crying hard when I took him up and was crying less.  When I put him into his night bed he stopped immediately, gave me a smile and went to sleep.  I was astounded, relieved and panicked as I had no monitor set up.  That nap I ended up staying in the room too scared to leave him but quickly sorted out a sound monitor for further naps.
Honestly I was amazed that a baby so young could have a preference to where he slept, but he did.  In one of the BW books I think Tracy describes putting baby to sleep anywhere other than their cot as being like us trying to sleep outdoors by a motorway - just not relaxing at all.  Maybe try your LOs night bed for naps?

[J-mum]

Hi thanks for replying.
I tried shush/pat for a good few days but never had success baby would only finally go to sleep after I stopped. It was to difficult to do when she is screaming and clearly distressed.

I have put her once in her night bed in my bedroom for a nap (first nap of the day) as I hadn't got dressed or fixed my make up yet.
But reluctant to put her there for all naps since it's advised baby should be sleeping in same room as me for 6months so feel a little scared. Also I'd feel like she was constantly in the bed room since she's asleep more than awake.

I managed to get her to sleep and down yesterday  for 30mins but then had to lift her for her to go back to sleep then seemed not to go into deep sleep again.

When I put her in her cot awake she starts smiling and chatting away its like she thinks it's fun time for some reason.

[creations]

Shush/pat isn't so much a method that "puts baby to sleep" it is a method of soothing so that she feels your presence and support and does not feel alone.  if she can fall to sleep alone then let her, this is the aim.
Shush/pat also involves picking LO up if she is crying to sooth in arms then put back down when totally calm and continue to shush/pat in the cot.  AT this age LO shouldn't be distressed in the cot crying and being patted, but rather patted in arms.  I'm afraid it involve even more bending over, standing up, bending over again.  Tracy didn't say EASY was easy. But it does work.  LOs this age can learn to sleep independently if you have the time and energy to put into the gradual gentle sleep training.

But reluctant to put her there for all naps since it's advised baby should be sleeping in same room as me for 6months so feel a little scared.

Yes I understand. I was also my plan to have my DS sleep in the same room as me for the first 6 months. I set up a travel cot/play pen in our family room for naps and the first part of his night sleep so I could make sure this happened...but like I said he had different ideas.  I was always cautious about the temperature of the room and things like that, I listened to the monitor.  Of course only you can decide.

I managed to get her to sleep and down yesterday  for 30mins but then had to lift her for her to go back to sleep then seemed not to go into deep sleep again.

This happens when LOs are not yet going to sleep independently or are moved from one place to another during sleep. When they stir in the light phase they realise they are not waking in the same place they fell to sleep and this raises their alertness and brings them out of sleep to call out for you so they can check everything is still okay.  LOs who learn to self settle at the beginning of sleep will become more successful at transitioning between sleep cycles on their own too.

When I put her in her cot awake she starts smiling and chatting away its like she thinks it's fun time for some reason.

If it is nap time you can actually just leave her to it.  Get on with whatever else you are doing until she calls or cries for you. By stepping in when she is happy you might be interrupting her learning of self soothing.  Sometimes LOs who are happy like this feel confident and calm and will gaze around for ages and eventually just nod off - which is exactly what you want to happen.
Mine did this and also would wake mid nap and stare around for ages - I could see his eyes open looking around, listening, turning his head a little towards movement or sounds, and because it was nap time and he was not crying or calling out I just left him. He might stay awake like that an hour and eventually just nod off. The more this happens the more LO learns to sleep independently.
You can't force LO to sleep, you can only offer the right environment for sleep (ie putting her down for a nap rather than having her up playing) and be there to reassure her if/when she needs you.  If she is happy leave her to it.

[J-mum]

I feel like we have a good EASY routine, in terms of eat, activity and sleep.
On average baby can be awake around 1hr 15 before needing sleep. So whatever time she wakes in morning it's 1hr 15 roughly til first nap and we carry that on all day.
With pat/shush I didn't ever leave her distressed when she's in my arms she's calm then as soon as i put her down she screams. I've tried seeing if pat/shush calms her but it doesn't.

I have a travel cot in family room for day time sleeps at night I put her in her night bed after her bath so I can clean and tidy before I join her. I used a video monitor. But feel if I do that during the day she'd be away from me too long if I put her in there.

I've tried a few times to put her down and leave her, she lasts about 5-10mins before crying. I don't know if she's too young to pick up comfort her and put her back down. Also worry doin this means she will be awake far too long and she will get overtired.
We've just broken a horrible cycle of over tiredness due to reflux she now wants to sleep but seems to only be able to sleep on me for longer spells. Even in pram or car can only stay asleep 30mins average.

I have a few times managed to get her very drowsy, eyes closed and out her down she wakes and I stroke her cheek and out hand on her chest until she's asleep but still only lasts a short time.

Easy only seems to work if I let her sleep on me then she will sleep 1hr 30 to 2hrs sometimes a little more.

It's just how to get her to sleep in travel cot for that length of time with making her over tired.

Does the gentle sleep training work around only pat/shush?

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Does the gentle sleep training work around only pat/shush?

Many people her have adapted shush/pat for various reasons.  Fro example some people prefer to use white noise rather than shushing.  With my own DS I did a small rocking motion rather than patting, patting can sometimes be unsuitable for refluxers so we didn't really get on well with patting. I began rocking in arms at wind down then when I put Ds in the cot I used a firm hand around his nappy area or hip and rocked it a bit, I usually used a very small movement almost like a car movement (vibrating like rather than big seeping rocking if that makes sense).
So it can be adapted but each time it is something that can be reduced and weaned just like patting.

[J-mum]

Could explain how she only like patted when held if not good with refluxers.
I could try the rocking motion.

How long do you suggest I should try it before giving up for that nap and settle her to sleep on me for that nap. I'm worries about her going back to a horrible state of overtired.

Also does the patting or rocking need to be done with baby on their side? 

[creations]

In the BW books Tracy describes how to get a LO onto a suitable routine and sleep train which involves trying to get LO to sleep for the whole nap time (or almost the whole nap time), LO will eventually fall to sleep even if it is much later than the planned nap time and sleeps until the time nap "should" finish to keep the routine on track and set up habits. If you continue this way the chances are you will sleep train more quickly (whilst it still being gentle and supportive for LO) and get into a predictable routine more quickly too.
However, it is often very hard to do all that and on the forums we usually suggest about 45 min mins trying for the nap.  With such a young baby the shush/pat involves picking up and even shush/patting all the way to sleep in arms, then continuing in the cot...so it is likely your LO will nod off earlier than the 45 mins even if the sleep is broken by putting her down, gradually she will learn to feel the weight of her own body on the mattress and to sleep there.  Getting a bit overtired during the stages of sleep training is to be expected. It can actually help LO to fall to sleep a bit easier even if it ends up a broken sleep due to the OT, they are still learning bit by bit how to fall to sleep in the cot.

There are also people who prefer to do lots of sling naps and naps in arms at this age - the bonding and closeness is wonderful for baby of course - and then tackle sleep training at a later stage.  It's always your choice.  You can still establish a predictable EAS routine with appropriate times for eating, activity and sleeping, you just don't get the Y time when baby goes down.

Patting doesn't have to be on their side.  Tracy described patting the back and putting LO down on their side to pat but many people prefer to put LO down on their back so that they don't have to roll them onto their back and disturb the sleep.  You can put LO down on her back and pat or do rocking around the hip/tummy.  Of course if you pat you don't pat hard on a tummy.
There is something to be said for beginning with LO on their side, Dr Harvey Karp (Happiest baby on the block) uses a "5 S" method which is very similar to Tracy's method and can be used instead/alongside very well.  He puts babies on their left side which helps to calm and also puts them into a better position to reduce spit up, it is more comfortable as acid is less likely to come up.  I used Karps 5 S (you only use as many Ss as you need, mine never sucked so I didn't do that part -  Swaddle Side Shush Swing Suck) which worked a dream in calming my very young baby.  The Swing part is almost as I described above, a tiny rapid rocking almost like a vibration, and I've seen on film it can also be increased to a big slow swing if needed.  I am not sure if Karps description is to put LOs down on their side or back but I always put mine down on his back following SIDS safety guidance.  There are several others on the forums who used Karps method in the early days along with the BW EASY routine. The two work well together.

[J-mum]

Thanks for your reply, I will have a look in karps.
I feel we have a good EASY routine minus the y. Which usually doesn't bother me because I love the snuggles. It's just I have days where I babysit a toddler and could do with being able to put lo down for her sleep to free me up. I also find I rarely eat when I'm at home alone because when lo is awake I spend that time feeding/burping and holding upright for 20mins after feed, changing nappy, interacting. Then I rush to the loo myself and try steal 5-10 to put on a load of laundry or run around with hoover etc before sleep time is on us.
I think people who say there lo just falls asleep in their bouncer when tired are fibbers haha

I have a sling I used when baby was smaller but it hurts my back as their is no support so bought a baby carrier which lo just cries in.

I managed to put lo down for a nap this morning, nap only lasted 45mjns before she woke but knowing she needs longer I lifted her in my arms and she went back to sleep for another hr.

Does it matter to easy that nap times fall at different times each day depending on when baby wakes.

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Does it matter to easy that nap times fall at different times each day depending on when baby wakes.

It's fine until it is not fine
Some people really need and want the routine to be the same daily so might wake LO and keep everything on track.  Others prefer to let LO wake up naturally (and you maybe get to sleep a bit longer) and then run EASY from there. All good.  Only time you really need to change is when/if it is not working.

[J-mum]

I briefly spoke to my husband about whether we should wake her at a set time in the morning so that she needs sleep at roughly same time each day. But I think until we are down to one night feed at roughly same time or none at all I will let her wake naturally. Just now she's up for two nights feeds and the second one is anywhere between 3am to 5:30am.

I managed to put her in day cot awake but drowsy and stroked her cheeky till her eyes were going and stopping and she put herself to sleep which I was delighted with But she woke after about 30mins and even rocking wouldn't get her back to sleep again. 
She usually wakes exactly at 46mins but when sleepin on me I can get her back over again quickly.
She's now incredibly overtired and been in bed over an hour and still unsettled, keep having to go into her.

Hopefully I can build on both independent naps and longer naps.

[creations]

One step at a time - it does sound like you made some good progress with her falling to sleep for that nap. Shame it was so short but it is still an achievement for you all.

[J-mum]

I'm pleased with our achievement. She went down for another napfhis morning but it lasted 32 minutes she is now in a light restless sleep in my arms but least she's sleeping

[creations]

As she's doing so well with falling to sleep at nap time, I wonder if you'd like to post your routine from yesterday or today?  I'm wondering if she might be OT or UT for the nap.  If you're happy to just continue you can, if you'd like us to check your routine we can do that too.

[J-mum]

Yeh, if you could have a look. Baby is getting good at telling me she's getting tired.
WU: 6:45
E: 7:10
S: 8:20 - 8:54 in day cot (took a while to fall asleep)
S: 9:10 - 10:14 in my arms (was clearly still tired so after failing to get her back over to sleep in cot I lifted her abs snuggled her in)
E: 10:20
A: until 11:30
S: 11:30 - 11:40 & 11:55 - 12:35 (still tired but didn't go back over)
E: 13:25
A: until 14:05
S: 14:05 - 15:00 (tired to get back over and she dossed off for a couple mins here and there but didn't properly fall asleep)
E:16;14
A: until 16:35
S: 1635-1755 (best nap of the day, in arms)
A: until 19:00 this is bedtime routine time
E:19:00
BT/S : 19:10

Stirred at 22:30 so gave feed which turned into dreamfeed since she never fully woke up.