help with newborn 45 minute nap transition

[mommykay410]

Hi,

My DS is 1 1/2 weeks old and I am trying to get him on EASY, although as expected it is far from easy, especially with my 2yo DD who only wants mommy all day.   I was able to find the part in Tracy's book today about the 4s wind down and staying with him until he is fully asleep, so I've been doing that for naps today, which has been taking me a little over 20 minutes.  He has been waking up at the 40/45 minute mark though and crying, so I've been going up and holding him again til he falls back asleep and he has gone back down for an additional 45 til E time.  What can I do to get him to make it through that transition without me having to go back in?  And when can I expect him to start falling asleep on his own when I lay him down swaddled without needing to be held through the stages?  I'm not sure what I'm going to do when my DH goes back to work next week and can't keep DD entertained while I tend to him.  She will be whining right next to me the whole time and be very loud, which is going to be very frustrating trying to get him to sleep.  Any advice would be helpful so I can get on the right track here!  Thanks!

[VnessMorris]

Hi and congrats on your DS!

For what it's worth, when I had both DDs home, I would let my 2 yo DD1 watch her favorite YouTube show and give her her favourite snack while putting DD2 down for her naps. I would tell DD1 that I needed to put her baby sister down for her nap and that she can help mommy by being a big girl and wait for mommy. I would also push the A time for DD2 so that she would go down as quickly as possible (DD1 would be entertained by TV and snacks for 10mins, tops!).

With the sleep transitions, have you tried to shh/pat DS? Again, I would get DD1 occupied with TV and snacks during Shhh/pat. However, it worked only a few times (10 mins is not enough time) and DD1 needed attention. If that happened, I had DD1 play/read as "quietly" as possible while I tried to shh/pat DD2.  I usually ended up APOP DD2 (slept the rest of her nap on me) while DD1 played around us. But it was possible to shh/pat DD2 a few times.

I have seen other posts where some mom's would use the sling for baby's nap when toddler needed attention.

HTH!
V.

[mommykay410]

Thank you for your reply and advice!  I actually got lucky for his third nap today and he made it through the transition on his own!  Although I better not get my hopes up yet.  I did sort of try to shh/pat him before picking him up at the 45 min mark, but I didn't want to do it too long if he was crying because I didn't want to risk him waking up completely and not going back to sleep.  As for DD, I guess I will just have to have both of them get used to me putting him down for nap.  I'm hoping that eventually she will get used to it and just go play in her room while I put him down rather than whining for me to do something with her.  And he will have to get used to the noise I guess.  Keeping my fingers crossed that tomorrow he continues transitioning on his own!

[mommykay410]

At what age should I expect him to be able to fall asleep on his own for naps after being swaddled and laid down without me shh/patting him til he is in a deep sleep?  That's what I've been doing for every nap so far and it takes at least 20 minutes each time.  How will I know when I can let him fall asleep on his own without risking him laying there with his eyes wide open forever and then becoming OT and impossible to get down?

[VnessMorris]

Good questions; I think it depends on the personality of your LO in terms of how quickly they will adopt independent sleep.

I can only comment on my own experience with sleep training with DD2: as an extreme example, I had to re-establish EASY and reteach Independent Sleep with her when she was 2months old. She was admitted to hospital for fever and when she came home she had her days and nights reversed (she was STTN prior to hospital stay). It took 5 sleepless days and nights to get her back on track; and another few days after that before she would go down for a nap independently. I still had to go in and shh/pat every so often but majority of the time she would nap through and stay on track. So, for DD2, she was an independent sleeper (again) at 2months old.

Before that, she was an independent sleeper by around 5weeks old with EASY "training" for about 3-4 days. Again, only occasional shh/pats to help with falling asleep.

With your DS being so young, hopefully he can adopt this in a few days!

HTH,
V.

[mommykay410]

That is encouraging to know this could be better within a week. He was able to go down on his own once yesterday but then fought his evening nap and then couldn't fall asleep at bedtime until after 10:30    Then I end up having to set alarms to wake him to feed at 4 hours because I don't want to let him go longer than that yet. When I do get him up to feed he takes forever to fall back to sleep then. My DD would go right back down after a night feed. Hoping he can sort this out by the end of next week when my helpers are all back to work and I am by myself.

[VnessMorris]

I remember those early days when I had to set the alarm for feedings! 

The one thing I do know is that DD1 and DD2 have completely different personalities, even though both are Angel/textbook types. DD1 would settle to sleep in less than 5mins after a night feeding; we tried the same "routine" with DD2 and it never worked.  Ended up having to figure out what worked for her and her personality and once we did, she would finally settle easily too. Took a lot of trial and error but it all worked out in the end. (Also, we were so scared of waking up our toddler with settling DD2 after a night feeding so maybe we didn't really give poor DD2 a good chance with some routines!  )

And yes, I got DD2 on EASY when I had help as early as I could. It makes life somewhat easier!

Good luck!
V.

[mommykay410]

When you EASY "trained" DD2 from the start, did you just teach independent sleep using the 4S wind down and shh/pat?  I've been trying to take him up at the first yawn, swaddle, hold for a few minutes, then lay him down and wait.  He is able to fall asleep on his own for one of his naps but the rest are usually a struggle.

[VnessMorris]

For early days "training" it was mostly getting her into the 3 hour routine: Making sure she woke up for enough feeding and keeping her awake during ATs. I used the same 4S wind down routine to put her down for her nap. Sometimes,  I had to use shh/pat to help her fall asleep independently. I just remember the hardest part of EASy during those very early days was trying to keep her awake during ATs while breastfeeding. She would feed for up to 45mins and I did everything in the book to keep her awake! I noticed that if I could keep her eyes open during feeds, she would go down easier for her naps.

V

[mommykay410]

Yes, keeping him awake is a challenge, even with DD screaming right next to him haha. Did you wake her from naps to feed at 3hrs? I have read some other posts that said not to wake from naps, but I have been so that he gets on the 3 hr routine and sleeps at night. Yesterday he did not go down for any naps on his own and I ended up having to hold and/or shhpat for close to 45 minutes each time. I cannot have that with DD around and needing attention. I am really hoping he starts falling asleep on his own by the end of this week because I am having a really hard time having the patience to be up there for so long, especially when it is time for DD's lunch or nap.

[VnessMorris]

Looking back to my notes when getting DD2 into EASY, I was sticking to the 3 hour routine as much as possible while learning what her sleepy cues vs hungry cues were. I only did this until we both got used to the routine and she started to fall asleep independently for most naps (e.g. Strict 3 hour routine for 3-4 days). Afterwards, I followed her sleepy cues. At the time, she was 4 weeks old and no medical/weight issues. Before that, I was feeding her every 2-3 hours to make she she was gaining weight. I'm not sure if "sticking to the 3 hour EASY" is appropriate for your DS bc he's so young. I have also seen other posts where letting baby sleep through and not waking for feeding (e.g. Letting baby nap through to 2 hours). But again, these were older babies (3-4months in age).

Maybe this would be a question for the EASY board?

There were also times I had to have DD2 sleep in a carrier/sling while I had my toddler around (esp during those catnaps!). That was the only way I could feed DD1 and have DD2 not OT!

V.

[mommykay410]

So much for getting him falling asleep on his own by the end of the week     He has fallen asleep on his own maybe a handful of times.  Every other time I end up having to shh/pat for at least 20 minutes, sometimes 45.  Yesterday he was able to make it through most 45 transitions on his own, crying but stopped before I made it upstairs with DD.  Today he hasn't fallen asleep on his own at all, and woke up in the middle of nap both times so far resulting in me having to spend at least 45 minutes getting him back to sleep.  I am running really low on patience at this point, and my throat hurts from shhing.  I can't keep spending that much time and leaving DD to play on the phone with no attention or food.  I have given up on the evening catnaps already because it is always at dinner time and he will not fall asleep in the swing.  So I get stuck holding him and not being able to eat.  Then we end up taking a walk on which he doesn't fall asleep either. 

[VnessMorris]

Hey mommykay410,

**hug** Sorry to hear; it is sooo tough having 2 and trying to implement EASY

I've read some other posts where moms have focused on one nap with baby and then just "getting on" with the day with both kids so that toddler and baby get used to each other (e.g. Napping in crib for whichever nap baby sleeps best and then going out during other nap times with stroller walks, sling/carrier, car ride etc...). It's good for all 3 of you to get used to each other and enjoy as much as possible. I know how hard it can be 

As for shushing, I too lost my voice (and got sick) shushing my 1st daughter while getting her to through sleep transitions. Then I found the BEST Shush App! It's called "Baby Shusher LLC". I have on iPhone and iPad. Ive attached a photo of how the app looks like. I've tried many other shush apps but this one is worth every penny. I've used this countless times and sometimes left it on with DD2's 2nd half of her nap just to get her through to the next cycle or for her catnap (e.g. Like a white noise).

Other thought:  Can you post DS's currentEASY routine? Maybe something can be tweaked a bit to help him through the transitions?

V.

[mommykay410]

We used white noise with DD around 5 months on for the longest time before slowly weaning away from it.  I will have to check out the shush app then.  His 3rd nap today was pretty good because he cried after about 5 minutes and then didn't wake at transition, so he slept from 2:45-4:30 at which point I woke him to eat.  He only ate on one side and then fell asleep and wouldn't eat on the other so I put him in the swing and he slept from 5-6:10 when I woke him again so he could have some A time before nursing again at 6:30.  I was able to swaddle him and lay him down to sleep after holding him for a couple minutes, and he fell asleep on his own after 2 short cry outs that I didn't have to intervene for.  So that was success! 
Today's EASY was:
WU 7:05
E 7:15
S 8:20-9:30, rocked til 10:15 bc nothing else was working, then put back in bassinet til 10:30 when I woke him to eat
E 10:35
S 11:55-12:40, tried to put back to sleep but no luck other than a little bit of stage 2 while holding but no deep sleep
E 1:25
S 2:45-4:30
E 4:40
S 5-6:10
E 6:30
S 7:10-

His A times are quite long according to this, but I'm starting the sleep times from when he seems to be in a deep sleep and I can leave the room.  I've been taking him up to nap as soon as he yawns which is anywhere from 40 minutes to an hour after he wakes. 

I think after I get him settled on the routine it will be easier for me to take him out and about with DD because he will be used to when nap times are and hopefully more likely to fall asleep in the car or stroller.  I have to be careful when I take DD out in the car too because if it's too close to her naptime she will fall asleep in the car and then only nap 30 minutes and be miserable the rest of the day til bed. 

[mommykay410]

And now last night was a disaster too, so today should be fun     He fell asleep great on his own at 7:10, woke up at 10 to eat and went right back down from 10:20-1:15, but then after he ate at 1:15 he didn't fall back to sleep til 3, woke up again at 4:40, ate, took til 5:35 to fall back to sleep then was up at 6:15, worked to get him back to sleep and he slept from 6:40-7.  I really need him waking up at 7:30 so I have time to get DD ready for the day, and the 3 hr intervals the rest of the day need to follow that.