Increasing A time?

[Hoofbeat]

Please could I get some help tweaking our EASY routine?

My DS will be 24weeks this week* and the last few days his naps have fallen apart and I'm fairly sure that his A time is now too short. I'm also confused as I've read different things about A time at his age, with some other websites saying that at 6 months the A time should be only about 2hr15mins, whereas I've seen on here that it can be 2.5-3hrs!

I had been going with a 2hr15min A time, apart from the first A which I found he preferred to be only 2hours. He is exclusively BF and I've struggled to push all of his feeds out to 4hours - I find he can manage this sometimes, but he seems to still like 3.5hrs and I know some bf baby never manage to make 4hrly feeds. He has also started having solids twice a day on the advice of our consultant and HV (as he has suffered with reflux).

Up until last few days his EASY has been roughly this:

6:45 WU (this seems to just be his natural wake up time)
7:15 E (I find he needs some 'awake time' before he'll take breakfast in the mornings)
7:30 A
8:45 S (we were getting 1.5hrs, sometimes 2hrs)
10:15 A
10:45 E (milk)
11:00 E (solids)
11:15 A
12:30 S (we were getting 1.5hrs)
14:00 A
14:15 E
16:15 S (cat nap)
17:00 A
17:45 E (milk)
18:00 E  (solids)
18:15 Bath/Massage/Book/top-up feed (doesn't always take this any more)
18:45-19:00 BT
We don't do a dream feed (as never found it worked with him) and he usually wakes between 3-4am for a feed. Sometimes he'll also stir at 5:30am, but I can get him back to sleep.

But last few days his naps have become shorter and yesterday we couldn't get him to take a nap at all in the afternoon! I'm sure it's because his A time is too short.

I don't find he's very good at giving me tired cues, so we generally clock watch and had found that had been working. He has a good wind down routine, and he usually falls asleep within a few minutes (with gentle shush pat, or just holding my hand on him). He definitely can make it through transitions on his own (he just did today for his lunchtime nap when he ended up going down late as we were out), and he is a good sleeper at night. However, he can't fall asleep completely independently and needs me to be sitting with a hand on him still. We don't use a dummy.

Do you think I should increase A to 2.5hrs? Also, any advice on what time he should have his 2 solid meals? At the moment I give him them straight after his milk and that seems to work, but is that ok? Thank you


*On a side note, I always get confused when people refer to a baby being '6 months'. Do they mean calendar months, or is '6 months' a set number of weeks? I always think of my LO reaching their month bday on a certain date in the month, so in my mind he won't officially be 6 months until 29th June.

[creations]

Do you think I should increase A to 2.5hrs?

Sounds like you already have a great plan

some other websites saying that at 6 months the A time should be only about 2hr15mins, whereas I've seen on here that it can be 2.5-3hrs!

Just remember that some other methods involve strict schedules and all babies are to fit into it, with BW everything is guidance and everything is based on the individual LO.  If your LO is ready for 2hr 30 A time or 3hr A time it is fine. What matters is that baby is well rested, treated with respect and the routine is manageable for LO and the rest of the family.
It's ok to clock watch if this helps you to get your LO down on time and the sleep routine is working - but it's *your* routine on *your* clock, not a prescribed one-size-fits-all schedule.

Also, any advice on what time he should have his 2 solid meals? At the moment I give him them straight after his milk and that seems to work, but is that ok?

A common time to give solids is 1hr after milk feeds.  This works really well as LO has enough of an appetite to show an interest, not too full from the milk feed but not so hungry that they are frustrated that they can't eat fast enough or want to by-pass the solids and get to some milk instead.  Looking at your routine you can probably move the milk a touch earlier and the solids a touch later.
Another quite common approach is to start with breakfast and lunch rather than lunch and dinner - it just gives more time in the day for the food to be digested and for any reactions to show up or pass before the night sleep.  It's not a strict rule but obviously solids can bring gas and wind which moves out more easily if LO is active rather than going almost straight to night sleep.
It's your choice.

WRT not falling to sleep independently, you can probably just begin to lessen the weight of your hand a little at a time and do a bit of on/off to get your LO used to you lifting your hand (don't go anywhere, just lift 1cm so there is very little movement) but with you still there.  If you set your mind on this you can see a big change in a week (and even be out of the room!)

Let us  know how the longer A time goes. it can take a few days to adapt to it.

[Hoofbeat]

Thanks Creations. I did originally try doing solids an hour after his milk feed, but then I found he seemed less hungry at the next milk feed (maybe that's ok though and a sign that I should push him out to 4 hourly)? Also, we often go out and about during the day and I was finding it easier to do milk and solids together so we then had a block of time to go out, without having to take food with us. He seems very keen on his solids and always enthusiastic (he'd take more if he could), so maybe it's ok to stick with my approach.

The bit I'm stuck with, is if I push our A time out to 2.5hrs, I'm not sure where to fit the catnap in before the evening as I don't want to push his BT back any later as 6:45/7 seems to work really well for him (and it means then my husband and I get a bit of time together in the evenings). Should I shorten the A time slightly before this and say aim for a catnap at 4:45-5:15?

6:45 WU
7:15 E
7:30 A
9:00 (I reckon I should still keep the first A shorter, but maybe I should try 2hrs15 here and then 2hr30 rest of the day?)
10:30 A
10:45 E (milk)
11:00 E (solids)
11:15 A
13:00 S
14:30 E (ideally he'd usually eat about 14:15, but I suspect I can push this out to 14:30)
14:45 A
??:?? Cat Nap (If he has 2.5hrs A time this would be at 5pm, but I think this would be too late with a bedtime at 6:45/7?)
17:45 E (milk)
18:00 E  (solids)
18:15 Bath/Massage/Book/Top-up feed (doesn't always take this any more)
18:45-19:00 BT

I will try and get a bit braver about slowly moving away as he falls asleep, but am just scared to undo all our hard work!

Do you have any advice on napping whilst out and about in the stroller? Inevitably, sometimes he's due a nap when we're out but he usually won't fall asleep unless he's OT and we're walking (or driving). I've very rarely ever managed to get him to fall asleep in the stroller whilst we eat lunch out for example. I've tried doing white noise (and previously tried shush pat when he was still in his bassinet on the buggy, but that never works now he's in the stroller seat).

[creations]

LOs often drop the CN around 6 months and move to a 2 nap routine but for this to happen the A time would need to reach 3hrs so it isn't time for the 3-2 nap drop for your LO just yet. The reason I mention it is because often BT does move later whilst the A times and 3 naps ned to be fitted into the day. If you don't get CN or BT resistance on the shorter A times then it's fine (if it isn't broken it doesn't need fixing) but if you do find there is resistance then you either need to accept a later BT so the CN can fit in or begin the CN later (so there is less resistance) and cap it shorter to keep a reasonable length of A time before BT.  Not all LO will agree to a capped nap, some are fine but some are so moody that it really isn't worth the stress.
Once the CN is dropped the BT will return to an earlier time. Just letting you know in case you think the later BT is for ever, it's not.
I know I'd prefer to lose a bit of Y time than to deal with an hour of BT resistance though.  Been there.

Do you have any advice on napping whilst out and about in the stroller?

Sorry no. Mine never slept in a pushchair and I remember having difficulties with that myself. I even had a thread here wondering if I should re-sleep train in the pushchair so I had some more flexibility to get out and about.  It just wasn't worth it for me.  Mine did eventually sleep in the car though so I didn't morning nap at home in the cot and second nap in the car on the way out somewhere and timed coming home for the next nap.  Bit of a drag tbh and I ended up spending a long time in the car letting him nap but that seemed to be the most suitable option for us.
You could start a new thread with this question if you like.

[Hoofbeat]

Ok so I've been trying to extend his A time and it's been working well apart from the CN in the evenings. He will just not go to sleep now (before I could get him asleep within minutes). He's definitely tired as rubs his eyes and yawns, but if I try and shush pat him he will scream hysterically (he is usually quiet when I shush pat him at other nap times) and if I don't touch him he is happy but just lies there playing (rolling around and blowing raspberries).

Any suggestions? I've tried playing with when I do the CN but even when I give him the full A time beforehand he is like this.

[creations]

If you give a full A time before the CN and he still won't actually go to sleep you might be stuck winging it for a little while.
A couple of options would be:
- let him have the "quiet time" of the CN even though he doesn't sleep. Then shorten the last A time before BT. In effect this is a very long A time from the end of nap 2 until BT but he may manage if he is getting a quiet time in there.
- if he is coping with increased A time for the rest of the day you could try an extra long A before the CN say 15min longer than the other A times and see if he is more ready for a sleep. This may make BT later or you can cap the CN down to 30 min.
- if he still refuses the CN regardless of a longer A time you could try dropping it but for this you will ned to increase the other A times in the day which risks him being OT for naps. You could prepare yourself by his cot to do W2S through any OT wake ups to help him sleep and do this is cycles of 3 days on and 1 day off to until you see he has adapted to the longer A time. BT would be earlier with the CN dropped.

It's quite early but not unheard of to drop the CN at this age. It may be for a while that you can do every other day, with one day him refusing but the following day accepting because of accumulated tiredness.  In time he'll settle onto a new routine with the two naps.

I'm afraid we don't have any trick to force LOs to sleep though so it's a case of experimentation to see how you can get into a suitable routine which works for you all.