10 week old early wake up and shortish naps...

[Liis]

Hey all, so I'm new to hear and read loads of posts here, but am hoping I guess just to get some confirmation that I'm on a good track

we have a lovely 10 week old who has been on a easy schedule since birth. He has lactose and cow milk protein intolerance which was discovered only 2 weeks ago and now he is on a good formula finally! since then he has been sleeping through the night. we do the bath around 7pm and he sleeps from 8pm- 5 am with one 2-3 am feeding. His night sleep seems to be around 8-9 h. I have tried to extend the morning sleep from 5 to 7 am with giving him a paci, but doesn't really work. so I'm thinking that should we do the bath instead around 10 PM to get him to sleep until 7 am? or just do a dreamfeed + a feed at 2-3 am?

the other problem we had was with food coming up. now we have the correct formula+ a thickener that keeps the food down much better. but because of that I have only now started to do tummy time and he is still quite behind with his head holding strength, so I have to push him quite a lot when he is awake with tummy time. up until two weeks ago he was on a 2h easy schedule. woke up, I fed him and then stayed up for 1h altogether and then do wind down routine for 15 min and he sleeps 45 min.  but every time it seemed he ate only like 70 ml formula and I realised that it was more of a habit not that he was hungry. so now for two weeks I have been feeding him every 2,5-3 h and he takes nice full feeds each time of 100-130 ml. but unfortunately it has not extended his sleeping... he still wakes up after 45 min and seems to be tired and grumpy during waketime. we have a very nice wind down ritual established- swaddle, white noise, sit with me in a swing + paci and then put him to his bed. this usually takes 5-15 min. sometimes he still cries a bit when I start it. he does sleep longer in a baby carrier or if I let him sleep in my a in the swing. couple of times in the last weeks has also slept 1,5 -2 h naps in his bed...but I can't see what was different then...so I know he can sleep longer sometimes. anyway, feeling quite frustrated by the short naps and him being grumpy and tired, but don't know how to get him sleeping longer naps? perhaps it is over tiredness that wakes him up? or is it just a developmental thing about the naps that will change in coming weeks and months? one thing to mention is that when he starts to wake up from the nap he starts first slowly kicking out his legs and whining, which in a couple of minutes gets stronger and stronger.. but the eyes remain closed...

thanks in advance for all ideas!!

[creations]

Hello and welcome to BW forums

Sounds like you made a great start to the routine and it's good to hear you have found a suitable formula for your LO That must be a relief!!

we do the bath around 7pm and he sleeps from 8pm- 5 am with one 2-3 am feeding. His night sleep seems to be around 8-9 h. I have tried to extend the morning sleep from 5 to 7 am with giving him a paci, but doesn't really work. so I'm thinking that should we do the bath instead around 10 PM to get him to sleep until 7 am? or just do a dreamfeed + a feed at 2-3 am?

I wouldn't move the bath as late at 10pm. LOs have a natural window for night sleep and if you miss that significantly then you could be asking for problems.  I think instead I'd suggest either trying a DF plus the NF or, if you don't like the DF (perhaps you like to go to bed earlier to make the most of his longer stretch of sleep?) or if he doesn't take a DF, then instead you could go for 2 NFs the one you have at 2am and again at 5am.  At the 5am waking then I'd just feed in a dim room, treating it as a night feed, and then settle him back down to sleep.  This feed is approx 3hrs from the previous E so it is a totally normal to eat at that time, LOs are only expected to do one longer stretch of sleep between E (which he is doing from 8am to 2am).

but don't know how to get him sleeping longer naps? perhaps it is over tiredness that wakes him up? or is it just a developmental thing about the naps that will change in coming weeks and months?

It can be developmental, yes.  It can be that he hasn't really learned yet how to sleep longer so he only does it occasionally (maybe when really really tired or the circumstances are just right).  Whilst it sounds like he has learned to self sooth and nod off at the beginning of his nap he might not yet have learned to transition from one cycle to the next without fully waking up, his little body moves and kicks and then he is too awake to get back to sleep but too tired to be happy about being awake.  As he's only been on his new forumla and settling into his feeding properly for 2 wks then I'd consider this still very very early days for sleep training. You're doing great so do take note of your success
Here is a link for W2S (wake to sleep) method, please have a look at naps option 1.  You don't wake baby but rather you are there prior to his wake up and help him through the transition from one sleep cycle to another.
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=223809.0
You can also adapt this method with your usual soothing method (ie if you tend to rub or rock slightly rather than pat that's ok) or mix it with HTTJ (holding through the jolts or pressure through the jolts, in the same link) to help him keep his legs still.

you might need to look at the A times. At this age you can often still follow cues such as yawns before putting him down, otherwise maybe aim for around 1hr 20 ish activity time between sleeps.

he is still quite behind with his head holding strength,

A more comfortable position can be on your chest/shoulder whilst you are sitting or slightly leaning back and he can try to lift his head and upper body (using arms too just like tummy time) that way instead. As he will be in a more upright position he might find it more comfortable for his tummy.  Many LOs can't/won't do tummy time due to reflux or other issues, you can still get him to exercise without actually being on his tummy.

hope this helps

[Liis]

hey! thank you so much for your answer and taking time to make it so long! we really appreciate it!

firstly, last night we tried for the first time doing df at 11 PM, but I realised I didn't like it, as I would get much less sleep that way. so the feeds were at 8,11, 2.30 and he tried waking up at 4, but I managed to extend it to 6.30...so quite a rough night it's great to know that at this age they only can do one long stretch, so I know what to expect! I will try doing a feed then around 4-5 am, even though in the past when I have done so, he hasn't fallen asleep again and wants to stay awake for the normal 1h, even though the conditions are like at 2 am

a question about jolting....he does this thing where he lifts his legs up...to 45 or 90 degrees and then lowers them down and moves head left to right...is this jolting...he starts to do it at the end of the cycle, first a little bit and slowly and then more and more vigorously and in the end adds crying to it, but eyes are closed. is jolting more like reflex? this seems more like a conscious move he makes...

yesterday it seemed to me that he was very overtired, kept on waking up crying and was grumpy during activity time too, so I decided to let him sleep on my lap for two rounds. we have a hammock where I put him to sleep. he slept two times 2,5 h naps...am I right in doing that?  wander also if it is a developmental thing,  but I really don't see any sleepy cues with him....sometimes he rubs his eyes after being awake for 20 min...at the moment I decide whether it is naptime by seeing if he whines when I put him on my shoulder...if he doesn't then probably he was bored, if yes, he is tired...seems to work for us. I will keep an eye out for a bit longer awake times!!!!

 do you think that it is a problem that at the moment our routine looks more like A-E-A-S? because he gets hungry after 3 h, but when he wakes up it usually just 2 or 2,5 h from last feed.

yesterday I found a good feed about implementing HTTJ, description by days and what would be the difficult moments, I believe it was written by you, but I lost it. do you know which one I mean?

very big thanks again for your support and time!!!

Liis (and Jakob)

[creations]

Hi leg lifts sound, like you said, more of a conscious movement than a jolt. Jolting is one of those kind of jerky movements that brings you awake, sometimes adults have them too.  Your LOs leg lifts sound more like he just wants to move or part of self settling. I think leg lifts are quite common - my DS certainly did those too.

You said you use a hammock - is it an Ambey hammock for babies?  Or similar? I used one until DS was 9 months and his leg kicks trigger a little rocking motion from the spring so in effect he could rock himself back to sleep.

Sounds like you are learning a lot about his sleepy cues and when it is not a sleepy cue, often when LOs get a bit older the cues are confused with boredom and wanting to change activity or environment, it could be that you've recognised this in your LO a little earlier.  Showing sleepy cues at 20 mins after a good nap is more likely a sign of having had a good nap - do you remember (pre baby!) having a long lie in and then feeling even more tired afterwards? yawning and feeling dopey from the longer sleep you had?  Sometimes LO are like that too, a good nap can lead to a bit of dopiness or yawning early in the A time. I would just give him time to come around and be cautious about loud noises etc whilst he's like that.

It's fine to have AESAE routine, keeping your E times close to 3 hrs but working A and S time to suit him.

There is a a little info on HTTJ on the previous link I gave you (the W2S link above, scroll down to see pressure through the jolts) but I am not aware of one which has description of days and difficult moments.  I'm trying to think what you might be referring to.  Perhaps it was info that you try W2S in cycles, say 3 days then hold off on day 4 to see what happens, the if LO wakes early again you go another cycle of W2S for 3 days and so on?