Catnapping Problems SOS

[regina1987m]

Hello,

My little one is 4 months old and I am starting to think she wants to drop the evening catnap!
If we're out she can fall asleep in the stroller or in my arms for 30-40 min just fine, but if we're at the house and I put her on her crib exactly in the same conditions as she naps for the first two cycles, she just won't do it. Am I doing something wrong here? Also, she is STTN so I don't know if it is too much sleep and maybe she just doesn't want to catnap anymore.

Should I settle for the evening catnap only when we're out? Any tips?


This is our 4-hour easy routine:

8:00 - Feed
9:40 - Sleep (she usually sleeps for 40min, wakes up for 10-30 minutes and falls back asleep again until 12:00, is this normal?)
12:00 - Feed
1:40 - Sleep (again, she wakes up at the 40 min mark for about 10 to 30 minutes and falls back to sleep till 4:00, should I worry about this?)
4:00 - Feed
5:40 - 6:00 - Whenever she shows tired signs I try my best to put her to sleep, sometimes she does for 30-40 minutes, sometimes (whenever we're home) she just doesn't.
7:20 - Bath
7:40 - Last Feed  ( I put her to bed by (8:10pm and she sleeps without waking up until 7:30 or 8:00 the next day)


Help! Thanks so much!

[creations]

Looks like your LO could do with an A time increase to help her get past the 40 min mark on her first nap.  Could you try an A time closer to 2hrs and see what happens?

(she usually sleeps for 40min, wakes up for 10-30 minutes and falls back asleep again until 12:00, is this normal?)

If she is just laying in her cot awake but calm looking around or a mantra cry and you are not needed to help her then this is totally normal and fine. Just let her be.  If though she is needing help I'd increase the A as said above.  This could help her transition to the next sleep cycle without the long wake up.

To drop the CN you would need the other 2 naps more evenly spread across the day (more like 3hrs A time for every A time) which is more like the routine of a 6 month old so for now I would say try to keep the CN or she can end up OT.
LOs tend to make habits per nap so if she is used to napping in the stroller or in arms for the 3rd nap then this is the habit she has built which is why it's hard to get her down in her cot for that nap. You could actually just nap her in arms for that nap if you wanted as it is a shorter nap so you are not tied down for 2hrs and also it is the one that is dropped so you aren't stuck doing it for ever, but maybe two months. Alternatively you could go out for a walk at that time so she gets a stroller nap and you get some fresh air?
It could be a battle to get that third nap in the cot at home though - not impossible but if you are going to continue to go out and about some days then the flexibility of napping in the stroller is probably more helpful for you rather than trying to sleep train and getting stuck at home - yk?

What do you think?

[regina1987m]

I didn't know that babies made their habit per nap, but you are so right! I will count my blessings and let her nap wherever even when we're at home for the afternoon. Having a three year old sister makes it very hard to nap at home every day

My other concern is the awake time she has in between her naps. Is it normal that she can't connect her sleep cycles and wakes up? When will she be able to do that without being awake in the middle of the nap? Should I be concerned? My doctor said that maybe she will not be a great napper after all and eventually she will not resettle after waking up for the first time, is this true? My first baby was such a great napper I just can't bare the thought of not having the same routine!!!!!!! 

Also, should I count the time she is in her crib without sleeping, awake time? For example, if she wakes up at 7:30am instead of 8:00, I leave her in her cot until 8:00am. She doesn't cry or anything, she just stays in the crib talking and playing but I always count the Activity Times staring at 8:00AM when I go and pick her up regardless of the time she opened her eyes, am I correct???


Thank you, thank you, thank you for your input!!! I really appreciate it!

[creations]

Is it normal that she can't connect her sleep cycles and wakes up? When will she be able to do that without being awake in the middle of the nap? Should I be concerned?

You don't need to be overly concerned, no. Thre's no point in worrying yourself over this, she is going to be okay
I think maybe you overlooked what I said about this in my previous post. About what she does when she wakes mid nap, about transitioning from one cycle to the next.
At 4 months there is a developmental phase where very many LOs can't connect sleep cycles, in some cases this can be improved with A times and with some sleep training methods but in some cases you just have to wait it out (it passes at about 6 months) which is why I commented on A times and what she does when she wakes - maybe have another look.
If you have more information I might be able to help more with how to move forward.

All time awake is classed as A time however it's fine to "count" from when she should wake in the morning if that's what you're doing, just be aware of that and when posting for support you can mention it because it helps us to know exactly what happens. Being aware of it means that if she does wake at 8am instead of 7.30 you might need to move the nap later for example.  Some LOs need a very long first A time but then shorter after that - some need the  opposite with a very short first A time and longer after, this is why EASY is based on the individual needs rather than a one-size-fits-all schedule.
For instance I would write out the first part of your EASY like this:
WU 7.30 leave in cot happy until 8am
E 8
A 2hr 10 (1hr 40 from getting up)
S 9.40 - 10.20  then awake for 10 - 30 min (here I'd put what her mood is and what you do to help her resettle back to sleep)
S 10.30 - 12.00
E 12
etc

[regina1987m]

Thank you so much!

Here is my real schedule then,

7:20 - 7:45 - Wake up around this time, stays in the crib chatting until I pick her up at 8:00
8:00 - Feed 8oz of formula (I offer her 8, sometimes she has just 6 or 7)
9:45 - Winding down routine (I put her back in her jammies, close curtains, put on the white noise  and lay her on crib wide awake with her lovey and the dummy, I say goodbye and leave If it falls I do not put it back in and falls asleep without it, sometimes she would fuss if it does but for no more than 5 mins and falls asleep)
10:20 - around this time she wakes up, chats and moves around her crib for about 10 -30 or even 40 mins, then falls back to sleep with no assitance whatsoever
11:45 - 12:00 - wakes up, she stays happily in her crib while I prepare her bottle
12:10 - Feed (7oz of expressed breast milk, sometimes she has 6oz)
1:45 - 2:00 - Winding down and off to sleep, same routine as the first nap, wakes up at the 40 min mark, talks, moves sometimes mantra cries and falls back to sleep with no assistance.
4:00 - Wakes up, stays in crib until I go pick her up
4:10 - Feed (7oz of expressed breastmilk, sometimes it takes me an hour to get her to drink the whole bottle, she's not a passionate eater)
6:00 - Naps in stroller, arms, wherever when were on the go! For 25-40 minutes almost always. If we're at home its almost impossible for her to nap in her crib.
7:30 - Bath, she gets a little cranky around this hour like very tired and hungry it seems. In her bath she enjoys it but when I change her she is always on the verge of crying, sometimes she does and sometimes we can get past it by entertaining her or placing the dummy. Its a coin toss to know if she's gonna get cranky or not.
7:40 - Feed (8oz of formula, sometimes she takes 7oz)
8:00 - Sleep time, I lay her in her crib awake, with NO DUMMY, just the lovey. She takes 5-20 minutes in falling asleep and has zero  night wakings during the night. She moves a loooot though 

I hope this helps!!!!!!!!!

[regina1987m]

Major update:

Yesterday I put her down for her first nap and I left her with my mom to run errands. She said she woke up at the 40min mark, and spent the rest of her nap Playing, talking and ocassionally crying, she gave her the paci (almost 2 months without giving her one!!ughghh!!) and obviously did not went back to sleep. It's important to say she wasn't crying when my mom went in and gave her the paci.
Second nap she slept like always.

Today,  she woke up at 7:30, picked her up at 8:00, put her down for her nap at 9:55, woke up at 10:40 and hasn't sleep ever since. She's not crying but just playing in her crib and wont sleep!!!!!! What is going on?

[ginger428]

Hi there,
Filling in for Creations while she is on a break. How has the past week been??

I sympathize wholeheartedly as my son took short naps... since birth to 6 mo actually.
The bad news is that, like you suspected, she is probably having a hard time connecting her sleep cycles.  Good news is that it's completely normal around this age as Creations mentioned and is a sign of development... sometimes it resolves by adjusting her routine, other times through sleep training, and other times with just time. It seems like you have set some awesome sleep routines, so most likely it's NOT falling asleep independently.

This is such a HARD phase though as it does require a bit of trial and error.  Here's what I would try in this order:  (But please start and do what you feel comfortable with... after all you know her best and every case is unique and special to the child).
1. Shorten her am A time to 2 hrs so aim for asleep by 9:20/9:30 With the next 2 naps at 2.15 A time for 3 days.  I know this might feel counter-intuitive, but I and others have found the morning A time was the shortest for our bubs. Again, if you feel this is certainly not the case, definitely try another thing first.
2. If that didn't do much, return to 2.30 morning A time, and stretch the pm naps from 2 to 2.15/2.20 A time.
3. Try wake to sleep. Here is the link for that.
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=223809.0

[regina1987m]

Hello Ginger428!

I am so sorry I haven't answered but I didn't know someone was going to respond! Thank you so much!

Actually, naps have been going back and forth lately. I have 3 different scenarios and it can go either way:
1. She sleeps for 2 hours straight, sometimes I have to wake her up.
2. She sleeps for 1 - 1.5 hours straight, sometimes she falls asleep again or sometimes she doesn't, but stays in crib until next feeding time (half hour or so)
3. She sleeps for 30-45 min, wakes up, moves around, talks and falls back to sleep until next feeding or sometimes I have to wake her up.

I've tried everything but I don't think it matters. Her wake ups are always inconsistent and I am starting to think it's always going to be like this Or maybe, could it be something developmental? If so, when should I start seeing a more consistent sleep? What is weird is that she was ZERP night wakings!! This just happens during naps

I have yet to do the W2S method, but I'm nervous of how to do it exactly. What if she wakes up? If she sees me I don't think she'll ever go back to sleep! Would you recommend?

[ginger428]

No worries.  It really does sound developmental as she is able to fall back asleep on her own even with the short nap... and she's able to connect cycles other times.  If she seems healthy and content, I honestly would ride it out.  The back and forth might be a sign that she is transitioning to a more stable sleep pattern... which is common after 6 months. What do you think?

[regina1987m]

Hi Ginger!

My daughter is almost 6 months now and started eating baby food this week. She sleeps 11 1/2 - 12 1/2 hours straight at night, no night wakings, but in the day its the same story as in forever. At 30-40 min into her sleep she wakes up fully and plays around for 10-40 min, sometimes she doesnt  even fall back to sleep! I do not have to go in and resettle, she’ll do that by herself with absolutely NO crying. She stays in the crib from 10-12 (2 hours, just like Tracy suggests)
She does sleep with a pacifier at naps though (at night she does not), but I’ve never had to reinsert it since 3 months old and even sometimes when she wakes she still has the paci on and throws it and falls back to sleep just like every time, with or without the pacifier... do you think maybe its a sleep association? Should I get rid of it for naps as well?

Do you think she’ll eventually be able to connect cycles for naps?
I dont think theres anything I can do to help her sleep better! I’ve been thinking of Wake to sleep but Im scared to try it. Should I?

Please help, I’ve tried looking for answers everywhere but I feel like Im alone in this and dont know how should I handle the situation

[creations]

Hi there regina

Could you post a recent EASY please so I can see what time she is waking in the morning, going to bed at night, how many naps etc.

I’ve been thinking of Wake to sleep but Im scared to try it.

What is it you are scared of with W2S?  I know you said previously you were too scared to try it too. Maybe if you describe what concerns you we might be able to help a little more?

With regards to the paci - If she will go to sleep without it for naps I would probably drop it now.  it doesn't sound like a huge prop the way you describe it, but LOs can become more attached to things as time goes on. I suppose it just sounds like now might be a good time to drop it as it could be harder later on and if it is kept for a long time it can eventually effect tooth development.  It's not major issue though if she's just using it for a suck before sleep - more of a problem for teeth if she's using it regularly throughout the day.

[regina1987m]

Hello Ginger!

I wanted to update you with how things are going in the hopes that you could help me!

We have been doing great. I weaned her completely off the paci for naps and nighttime, I only give it for soothing during the witching hour (6-7:30PM) but it's just when she really seem to need it.
After a few CIOs when weaning her off the paci (she cried for approx 5 min), she started sleeping LIKE A BABY and waking up at the 40min mark just ocassionaly- this makes me believe she woke up because of her paci, trying to find it during light sleep and waking up because of it. So for a good 4 weeks I was living the good life! Our schedule was EASY perfection.

Due to daylight savings and going on a trip a few weeks back things just haven't been as good.
I'm from Monterrey, Mexico and we went to California (2 hour difference) for a week, so I had to rearrange her day and sometimes she was just too tired that she wouldn't make PEEP when I put her down AWAKE for naps and sometimes ASLEEP for nighttime as she drank her bottle and fell asleep in my arms a couple of times.

Ever since we got back, she has been CRYING TO SLEEP at every nap and nighttime, which is something she never did, at least for nighttime. I don't know how to address the problem! She cries for about 2-5 minutes, but it really gets me because my hearts shrinks whenever I hear her cry or whine for that matter. I know it is minimum, but this has been going on for one week and a half and is driving me crazy! Has she developed a need to cry for sleeping? Do you think it might stop? I tried giving her the paci for a nap last week and she woke up at  the 40 min mark just like old times!
I don't know how to address this problem... what would you do?

Please help!

[ginger428]

Hi Regina,

Great job with weaning the paci.

How does she cry... is it a whimper cry, full-blown cry, hysterical crying? And where are you and what do you do at that time?

What I suggest is to remain with her, as at BW we don't leave babies to cry alone.  And say 1 sleepy phrase gently for a few moments- such as, Mommy's here and I love you. It's time to sleep.  I'm right here." I think she is about 8/9 months now? There's a huge developmental leap around this time, I know- another one, that could cause some anxiety.  Also, she's probably still adjusting back to her routine.  Give it some time and check your own reaction to it, as she will sense that. Remain calm and believe that it will get better... because it will!

[regina1987m]

Hello Ginger,

Oh, I'm sooo happy to hear back from you!

Juliette's behaviour has been weird lately, I believe this has been developing for quite a few weeks now. Ever since we got back from that trip I told you about, she has been whining a lot when I put her down for naps. EVERY TIME, NO EXCEPTION. I have entered the room but that seems to upset her even more!!! She doesn't like sush/pat, she doesn't like the PU/PD. It's almost like she NEEDS to cry (no tears, though) for falling asleep. At least that is what I thought up until today.
We have been going away for vacation two times more, making it hard to get used to her routine because this places haven't been baby-friendly and she has been around people or carried all the time! I believe this has helped her develop a separation anxiety problem. We got back (again ) yesterday so today I started the normal routine and when it was time to play she just couldn't be left to play alone. Not even on the jumperoo (she LOVES it regularly) or with her toys on her mat. She started crying histerically and I picked her up she stopped.

WHAT IS HAPPENING? How can I help her through this phase?

I don't know what to do!