6 month old rolling over all night-multiple night wakes

[Serenede]

Hi,

Just looking for some advice on how to handle my 6 month old rolling onto his tummy at night, getting stuck and constantly waking. This goes on all night long and by about 4am he then cant settle back to sleep so we have to feed him which is messing up our day routine. I’m aware that practicing during the day is supposed to help but the funny thing is he’s not at all interested in rolling over during the day it only happens at night! I thought about rolling a towel up under the sheet to stop him from being able to roll but am I not actually helping my doing that? Any advice would be appreciated x

[becj86]

I thought about rolling a towel up under the sheet to stop him from being able to roll

Its worth a shot.

What his EAS? He may be getting close to dropping the CN given he's having trouble sleeping in those early morning hours - that often means he needs more A time first thing in the morning.

[Serenede]

Well I tried the towel last night and we got through to 4am before he managed to roll over anyway! His EAS is roughly as follows:

WU 6.45/7am
E 7.15
E solids 7.45
A 2/2.15 hours
S 45 minutes in car (there isn’t much I can do about this as I have to take DD to school and he always falls asleep on the way backif i try keeping him awake to get him home he then struggles to go to sleep as he is overtired)
A 2-2.15 hours
E-11am
S-12-1.30/2pm sometimes i have to feed him early at 2/2.30pm as he’s grumpy when he wakes
A-2 hours
E-3pm (if not fed early)
S- 4-4.45pm
A-2-2.15
E- solids
E 6.45 pm
BT- 7PM
NW-has been around 4am and I feed him if shushing doesnt work. He has before the rolling slept through with no Nw’s

So i dont think we could drop the CN as his first sleep is short making the second sleep earlier. I guess in time when he can push his activity time i should be able to get him home for the first sleep.However If that is a long sleep the second one will have to be short because we leave for school at 2.45pm.  At weekends i can push his first activity time to no more than 2.15 hours even if he has slept through.
He has just cut two teeth and we have started solids in the last week too.

[ZanesOTmom]

Hi there. We were there too not so long ago and I dreaded nights. We switched from swaddling with both arms out to a sleepsack. It seemed to discourage rolling over at night. Good luck.

[Serenede]

Thank you! We do use a sleeping bag but doesnt seem to be helping. For the first time today he has rolled over during his long lunchtime nap and woken himself after 40 minutes. He is the sort of baby who will not be resettled in anyway

[becj86]

There's a growth spurt at 6 months too that can have babies who've previously had no NFs go back to having an NF, so that could be part of the picture.

Its going to be tricky if you can't avoid the car nap. The only think I can think of there is to keep it really short but then its going to be trial and error to work out an A time before the next nap. It sounds like he's really used to the 2-2:15 A time and is habitually sleeping at that time so pushing that A time is going to be really difficult. Do you have a break from the school run for a few weeks in which you could push that A time consistently?

I do think he can probably do more that 2-2:15hr A time after the first nap but I'm aware the nap would run into the school run - can you transfer him to the car and will he stay asleep so he could finish his nap in the car?

In short, I think your issues in the early hours of the morning can probably be fixed by increasing the first A time but I don't know how that will fit into your life. Would you be prepared to move his day to being 6-6 or 6-7 instead of 7-7?
Your day might then look something like this:
6 - WU, feed
7 - solids
8:45 - nap in car
10:15 - wake, feed
1 - nap
2:30 - wake, feed
4:45 nap
5:15 - wake, feed
7 - asleep in bed
OR
asleep in bed at 6pm without CN - if a nap was a bit longer and the last A time was ~3hr.

He is the sort of baby who will not be resettled in anyway

I suspect this is because he's UT for almost every nap he takes.

In the end, its all about what balance you can achieve for the whole family and what he's doing at the moment seems appropriate. I've given you some options to consider if you want to change things up but its reasonable to stick with what you're doing for now if its working for you. I do think there's going to be a rough week or two somewhere soon where you do need to increase A times but its up to you when you tackle that.

[Serenede]

Thanks becj86!

I think that disastourus week is this week! Today has been interesting and I agree it looks like his activity times need increasing. He seems to need the full activity time even after a short first nap and this allows a second longer nap. Today.........

6-WU (he didnt really want to be awake and was trying to go back off but by 6.30am he was screaming)
6.30-got up
6.45-feed
7.45-solids
8.40-9.10- nap in car (got woken at the school gates by a screaming child!) didnt go back off
10.30-feed
11.10- tried putting down because of the short nap but wouldn’t settle. Got back up (I can usually tell if he will settle with shush pat or not and often find it better to get him up and try a bit later)
11.45-2.10- nap (woke to protect CN)
2.15-feed
4.15-4.50-nap in sling
5.15-solids and small feed
Bath
6.50-Feed
7.10-BT

I would ideally like to keep a 7-7 day as it fits well with DD and two evenings we dont get back from after school activities until 5.45pm. I also think a 7am wake gives me more scope to get back from school before he falls asleep. He will only take a max of 45 minutes sleep in the car and if i try taking him out he just wakes up even if i leave him in the car seat so at the moment im having to sit on the drive with him or drive into town and wait for him to wake  As i said i think with a 7am wake I may just be able to get back perhaps if i give him lots of toys and play a music CD that might help. I have the next five days with no school run as a friend is helping so it may help a little otherwise it will be two weeeks at Christmas. Also with the afternoon nap once ive gone in the room he wont let me transfer him without waking. I think in some ways it may be best to have a shorter first nap followed by a longer one and keep the CN for longer.

Ill work on increasing the activity times, from today I can see he can do it and settles better for it. Ill update in a couple of days and thanks again x

[becj86]

Good luck, hope it irons out soon for you.

I trained DS to transfer around this age wirth a shush/pat variant as I took him from one place to another... it might be worth trying if you get really stuck.

[Serenede]

Hi,

Just thought I would come back with a bit of an update and some more questions! Our EAS now looks like this.

6.30-WU
6.45-E
7.30-solids
9.20-10am -S (I’ve been able to keep him going on the school run so this nap is usually in the cot)
10.45-E
12-solids
12.45-2.50-S (Have to wake for school run)
15.45-E
17.20-17.40-S (I wake him)
18.00-solids
19.45-E
8PM-BT
NW anywhere between 2-4am more often 4am sometimes he can settle himself back to sleep but often he can’t and I end up feeding him after he has grumbled for an hour and then really starts crying. Sometimes he will then sleep in until 7.15am but also can be 6.15am.

So i’m Wondering if its time to drop the CN? The trouble I have is the following:

If i put him down after 2 hours A time for the first nap he will then have a long nap but any more than 2.15 he will only do 40 mins. I have been sticking with the longer activity time as I was hoping it would help with that EW. Also if he has a long nap here I cant fit the next one in and leave him late enough to avoid the CN because of the school run. However my DH is working from home the next few days and with Christmas coming up this could be possible for a while which might see us through this bit and in 3 weeks time he’ll be that bit older and maybe able to manage from 3-6.30pm BT? I do worry he will be up for the day at 5.30 though as he seems to be able to manage 11 hours max at night obviously with a NW.

Any thoughts on where to go with this and how we can try and avoid that long NW? I don’t think I can push his activity time for the first nap anymore as he is almost in melt down even after 3 weeks of trying.

[becj86]

If i put him down after 2 hours A time for the first nap he will then have a long nap but any more than 2.15 he will only do 40 mins.

This is the difference between extending his night and starting his day. If you push a bit more than 2:15 for the first A time, you'll probably get a better nap. I'd be tempted to say 3hr may be the sweet spot given that's average for this age and by what you've written there, you're at 2:50 at the moment, getting a 40min UT nap.

Also if he has a long nap here I cant fit the next one in and leave him late enough to avoid the CN because of the school run. However my DH is working from home the next few days and with Christmas coming up this could be possible for a while which might see us through this bit and in 3 weeks time he’ll be that bit older and maybe able to manage from 3-6.30pm BT?

Sounds like a reasonable plan. Its going to be tough getting 2 long naps around the school run, I know some people would have dropped the CN much earlier but have 2xCN and one long nap much as you're doing now for quite a while after most have dropped the CN but have 2 long naps.

I do worry he will be up for the day at 5.30 though as he seems to be able to manage 11 hours max at night obviously with a NW.

He may, he may not - its really down to seeing if you can push that A and get him wanting that sleep in the early hours of the morning a bit more.

Any thoughts on where to go with this and how we can try and avoid that long NW? I don’t think I can push his activity time for the first nap anymore as he is almost in melt down even after 3 weeks of trying.

Think of this A time - he's strapped into a car for how long? then a pram and surrounded by lots of kids which is a bit overstimulating usually, then back strapped into the car... Mine is still nearly in meltdown just with those events even at 6yo so it may not be that he's tired, it might be other things. I suspect given you're getting an UT nap when we know he can sleep long ones, its not tiredness causing the meltdown.

[Serenede]

Thanks for the reply.

That all makes sense, so today he woke at 7am after sleeping 11 hours straight, yay! I have put him down at 10am (didn’t have to do the school run) so will try for two longer naps today. Do you think it would be ok on the days DH isn’t home up to Christmas if i do some days with two long naps and some days with 2 x CN and one long nap or will that mess him around too much?

[becj86]

That should be fine. Some babies will handle it and some won't but he strikes me as a baby who goes with the flow a bit anyway. I guess if you go with 2 long naps as your main routine and see those other days as being outside the normal plan its basically what you'd do if you had an UT first nap at this age anyway.

[Serenede]

Just thought I would come back with a bit of an update. So over the Christmas break our EAS has been amazing with wake up any where between 6.30-7.30am. I pushed his activity time to 3 hours but some days with a wake up of 7.30am he could do 4 hours. Depending on the WU time he would do either 2 x 1.5 hours or 1 2. 5 hours and a CN. Anyway since being back to school/routine etc he is back to waking between 5-5.30am with no chance of getting him back to sleep. The last two mornings i have tried to avoid getting him up until 6am, difficult as he’s very active in the cot and isn’t one to lay chatting/playing and usually starts crying straight away. Our EAS now looks like this:

5/5.30-WU
6- Get up
6.45-E
7.30-Solids
9-11.15-Nap (have to wake)
11.30-E
1-Solids
2.30-4-Nap (often have to wake)
4.15-E
5.30-Solids
7.15 BT

On the days I have to do the school run at 3.15pm I have been doing CN in the morning and long sleep 12.45-3pm then BT and 6.45pm.

I am thinking I will have to push the first activity time? If I do this and his wake ups go back to lets say 7am and I put him down at 11am for a long nap is it best to just do a short CN at 4.30? He really needs no less than 3.15 activity time before bed, although with a short nap I guess he may cope with 2.5? Any ideas gratefully recieved.

I also wonder how to fit in any social activities with the first nap starting later as driving anywhere in the morning makes him fall asleep? Then after lunch  we only have an hour or so before school pick up. Does it matter at this age if we dont get out much? He’s a baby that seems to like lots of stimulation and gets easily bored!

[becj86]

I am thinking I will have to push the first activity time? If I do this and his wake ups go back to lets say 7am and I put him down at 11am for a long nap is it best to just do a short CN at 4.30? He really needs no less than 3.15 activity time before bed, although with a short nap I guess he may cope with 2.5? Any ideas gratefully recieved.

This sounds reasonable.

Wondering... is he waking early to get some mum time? I know that's a hard thing to ask yourself but its a pretty common thing when LO and mum are in different places during the day.

WRT social stuff in the AM - I just went out early so he wouldn't fall asleep, took snacks, changes of clothes, etc. and we did stuff all morning, then put him in the car to go home at nap time and transferred him when we got home.

[Serenede]

Ok i’ll go with that. Today he woke at 6.45am so much better and has gone down for his first nap at 3h20 A time.

I don’t think he’s waking for more time with me as we are together all the time, he is rather keen on being with me though!

Yes that sounds like a good plan, we do have a music group at 1.30pm which might also fit well.

Thanks