6 month old - problem with transitioning from 40 min

[btw.mom]

My DS is just turning 6 months.  We are struggling with extending naps since 4 months when hes gone on a 4 hour routine.  Some days better and some worse.  He has a hard time transitioning between cycles, and I've been working on this for about two months now.  I've read many posts and tried the suggestions, but still not there yet.
I tried two cycles of W2S for 3 days at a time.  (different weeks tho, as DS got sick in the middle. just for the record, when he was sick he slept beautifully 2 hour naps. and as he got better the naps got shorter and shorter.  but we're struggling with this problem since way before that)
On the W2S he has been doing a little better, I'm able to get him to sleep for 1 hr to 1.25 hr but I really want him to go longer. He still seems tired.
I use shush pat method, and it works ok.  But i have to spend almost the entire nap in the room with him. I go in at 30 min, and shush pat, or put my hand on him.  I basically have to stay in the room after that.

I've read about the 4-6 month regression, and he is now turning 6 months.  Will I always have to spend the whole nap with him, because I am very close to giving up.  Though I do see some improvement it's not quite consistent and I don't really know...Started  to get very frustrated here.

I would appreciate some direction.  Thank!

[becj86]

Hi, welcome

It sounds from your post like your DS is undertired - not tired enough to take a long restorative nap. It would really help to know how long he's awake before he goes for a nap - could you post an EAS for him? eg.
7 - wake, feed
10 - nap
11:30 - wake
etc...

I think we'll be able to help you get this sorted.

[btw.mom]

Hooray! I really hope so.

E -wake up is at btwn 630- 7 and first feed is at 7
A- he's awake until 9 when he shows definite tired signs.  falls asleep pretty quickly
S - from 9 till 940 and then i work with him till as close to 11 as i can. usually i can get a bit more sleep out of him till 1015 or so and I keep trying till 11
E - 11. sometimes I give him earlier at 1030
A -  depending on when he wakes up I try to give him 2.5 hours of awake. till 1 or 130
S - 1/130 also does the same 40 min cycle, some times goes for an hour and i keep working with him till 230. sometimes it works and he'll sleep till 3 and sometimes i just get him up at 230.
E- 230/3
A- 230/3-5
S - catnap usually 5-545 but can sometimes be 515/530 for 45 min. this nap is only one cycle so its the easiest, tho occasionally we skip it if he's slept till 315 the previous nap.
E - 630/7
Bedtime 730 or 8. I try to do it on the earlier side, but depends on whats going on in the house with the 2 older sisters.
Hes been sleeping great at night, tho the last 2-3 nights he wakes up around 330, we give him the pacifier and he sleeps the rest.
P.s. im hoping to start solids next week
PP.s so far i've been home with him but soon I will be sending him to his grandmother.  I really wanted to sort this out first..

awaiting your response

[becj86]

Alrighty, so at 6 months, average A times are 2:45 to 3hr so he's almost certainly UT for his naps. You're persistent, sticking it out for a 2hr period when he's not napping more than about half of that time!

I think if you can increase his A time to 2:30 minimum, I'd go straight for 2:45 and tweak from there. When you increase his A time that much, he will likely have OT wakings from his naps at 30min which should be much easier to resettle. If you are there at the 25min mark and resettle straight away, he should resettle pretty easily and the naps should get longer. You shouldn't need to intervene for more than a few days and your days should be much better thereafter. It can be tricky getting a baby who's used to 2hr A times to 2:45 however, its a matter of changing activities and seeing how he goes. You may find now he's a bit older that his tired cues double as bored cues - ready for a new activity rather than ready for sleep, though he may be 'tired' out of habit, hence he goes to sleep pretty easily for you.

I think given he used to do 2hr naps well, he'll get back to that once he's been awake long enough to be tired enough.

[btw.mom]

Thanks for your reply -  I wish I had posted sooner...

I kept LO up today close to 3 hours and he slept 1.5 hours and did not wake at 40 min.  So that was a real success!
The afternoon nap he was up for (A) 2hr and 45 min. He woke at 45 min, and I resettled him (took about 5 min) and he slept another 20. to total was 1 hr and 10 min.  Thats much better than before!
So I hope that he won't actually wake at the 40 minute cycle..
Does this mean that the longest that he will sleep, on a 4 hour routine, is 1hr 15 min? If he's awake 2.75-3 hours, that leaves a nap of 1-1.25 hours.
How does that work..? Also what happens to the catnap, do we drop it and put him to sleep at 6?
Today I put him in the crib (after only a 2 hr A and he was in there for about 40 minutes but I don't think he actually slept.
So todays schedule was:
E - 7 wakeup and Eat
A - 7-945 - 2 hrs and 45 min
S - 945-1115
E - 1115
A - 1115-2 - 2 hrs and 45 min
S - 2-310 (woke after 45 min, and resettles to sleep)
E - 315
A - 315-515 - 2 hours
S - CN 515-6 (but I don't think he really slept at all. but he was quiet in the crib)
E - 7
BT - 730 (prob. closer to 8 till he really settled down)


Thanks again for your support and looking forward to your reply!

P.s. I sent LO to his grandma this week, and he totally refused the bottle of breast milk. As in, he just refused and ended up skipping that feed. Of course he woke up that night twice, and I nursed him early morning around 530 even tho I don't usually if he wakes then, I just resettle him to sleep, but I figured he was hungry. Which forum can I post this issue on? He is going to be started going to grandma regularly. Thanks

[becj86]

Ok, so you need to let the 4hr thing go - that's great at 4 months, not at 6. Things move on.

I kept LO up today close to 3 hours and he slept 1.5 hours and did not wake at 40 min.  So that was a real success!The afternoon nap he was up for (A) 2hr and 45 min. He woke at 45 min, and I resettled him (took about 5 min) and he slept another 20. to total was 1 hr and 10 min.  Thats much better than before!

This here suggests he needs at least 3hr then, so aim for that The 2:45 A time gave you an UT waking that you could resettle but still an UT nap.

Once you're at 3hr+ A time and 1.5hr+ naps, then you can drop the CN. I think that's soon if not now for you. Don't set yourself up for failure though by hoping for a 13hr night, though with BT at 6 and ideal WU at 7am - that may not happen. Things can get a bit messy through the transition but I think you're pretty much there already.

P.s. I sent LO to his grandma this week, and he totally refused the bottle of breast milk. As in, he just refused and ended up skipping that feed. Of course he woke up that night twice, and I nursed him early morning around 530 even tho I don't usually if he wakes then, I just resettle him to sleep, but I figured he was hungry. Which forum can I post this issue on? He is going to be started going to grandma regularly. Thanks

There's a breast feeding page on this forum - check out the FAQs and post there to your heart's content - you'll get great advice. It will be helpful if you can say a little about how long he'll be at grandma's place during the day, how often that will happen, whether he has ever taken a bottle at home before, etc.
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=173309.0
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=12.0

[btw.mom]

Ok, so you need to let the 4hr thing go - that's great at 4 months, not at 6. Things move on.

ok, but then what does the routine look like? E, A - 3+ hrs S- 1.5-2 hrs and the Eat again?
Thats 5 hours in btwn meals.. unless i'm supposed to start solids during his A time?
Could you advise me on a routine for my situation?
I want to start solids, but i thought it might be better to fix the nap issue first.

Also the last 3 nights he's been waking btwn 2 and 3 am, he resettles easily but why is he doing this? is it related to his naps? will it work itself out, or is this another problem.

Thanks so much!

[becj86]

So you can do a topup feed an hour after the main feed when he wakes - this will be changed to a solids meal when you introduce solids. Or you can do solids and offer milk in a sippy cup or similar.

Hard to type on my phone but will do a routine suggestion in the morning.

The 2am waking could be that he needs more A time first thing in the morning or that he's hungry. I suspect its not hunger if he resettles easily without feeding. It should resolve with getting the day sorted.

[btw.mom]

Update: I've been pushing his awake time to 3 hrs and he is pretty exhausted at the end, BUT he is sleeping now 1.5 hours!
I am so grateful for this forum and your advice.
There is still a bit of adjusting to do, as he woke up very early and in the middle of the night, but with these guidlines I hope it will sort itself out.

I will do the top up/ solids, and looking forward to your suggested routine.

Thank you!!

[becj86]

Wonderful news, the 3hr A time will get easier as he gets used to it

Something like this:
7 - wake, BF
8 - topup/solids (I would offer breastmilk/formula as a drink with solids)
10 - nap
11:30 - wake, BF
12:30 - topup/solids (I'd say to introduce solids only in the morning for a week, then switch out lunch - give him a chance to learn what it feels like to have solid food go through his gut)
2:30 - nap
4 - wake, BF
5:30 - cluster feed
7 - aim for asleep in bed
If you and he are happy to get up at 6am, shift it an hour earlier, etc. Obviously if he sleeps longer, the rest of the routine shifts later - don't wake him from naps to keep on a schedule - this is a routine with a rough guide as to when things happen - he's a baby, not a robot.

[btw.mom]

This weekend LO get sick, so everything was a bit disastrous, but he's feeling better today.
So, I will try your suggested routine for a few days and post back an update.
Hes starting this week by Grandma, so I know I need to give everything some time.

Thank you soo much for your help!!

[becj86]

Glad he's feeling better. Hope things go alright with grandma.

[regina1987m]

Hello!
I just wanted to let you know my daughter did 40min naps up until 7months old and I realized it was because of the paci!!!! I don't know what happened but when I weaned her off it for naps the wakenings just stopped. Either that or her sleep changed and she started sleeping better at 7 months. I used to think she would wake up at the 40min mark FOREVER, but what I did when she woke up is let her know it was still sleep time and just try to help her sleep through her next cycle.

All I can say is that consistency is key!!!!!!!!! Do your best and hope for the best and just let your baby do the rest