Shall I pay the $100 for help?

[Crispysage]

Hello friends and Very Merry Christmas to all - I am feeling SO TIRED of not sleeping for (what feels like 2 years now.) DS2 is still not sttn. I have posted over and over and over and not figured it out with you ladies. It burns me to think about paying Dana Obleman $100 but I am at my wits ends here. (Does she do CIO BTW?)

To summarize my woes again:

LO is 20 months, he goes to sleep for BT and naps like a dream. By himself in his crib with others in and out of the room no hassles. He uses a paci but it doesn't seem to be a prop because most of the time when I go to him he has one in his mouth.   
5-7pm BT routine asleep by 7pm.
Wakes up 3 or more times in the night (last night was 10, 11:30 and 1 then 5am - a GREAT night!)
5 am WU can often get him back to sleep till 6 or a bit later.
11:30 nap If I leave him he will nap till 2:30

He is teething canines right now, but honestly it's been night waking all his life for one reason or another.

When I go to him he can settle without being picked up... He seems to want the medicine or something sweet (I have tried "subbing" juice in the med syringe) or a drink of water. He just seems upset and needs some contact.

Big brother is in the room with him and thankfully usually sleeps through most of it and WU 6:30.

HELP Please!!!

[becj86]

I don't know anything about the lady you mentioned, sorry.

When I go to him he can settle without being picked up...

At what point do you go to him? Is he crying out or just awake?

I reckon you could help the early hours by pulling the nap later and capping it at 2.5hr to start.

I presume he's not waking for the paci, finding it, replugging himself and then not able to get back to sleep. Or waking for the paci then noticing he's sore or thirsty or you're not there?
It may be paci-weaning time...

[Crispysage]

Thanks! ya Paci weaning seems the obvious first go to.  I was thinking I would hit potty first  Honestly I haven't even weaned LO1 off that yet...  As far as the nap changing EW or anything else, I feel like I have tried everything there and the results are always erratic. I capped at 2 hrs for over a month with no effect then DH let him nap 3.5 hrs and he STTN for the 1st time in months. So now I let him sleep. Pushing the nap later is what I am already doing at 11:30. He would sleep at 10:30 if I put him down. But I can try pushing it further and further. LO1 sleeps at 12:30

[becj86]

Pushing the nap later is what I am already doing at 11:30. He would sleep at 10:30 if I put him down. But I can try pushing it further and further. LO1 sleeps at 12:30.

\
I think its reasonable to push later by 15min every couple of days til you get to 12:30. You might find he wakes later.

[Crispysage]

Thanks - husband and I are so over tired with this endless night waking. He has been up between 3-4 and then awake from 5. I struggle to keep him awake till 11:30. Between 10:30 and 11:30 he is bordering on falling and hurting himself he is so tired. 

[Martini~]

Have you offered a very short nap at 10 for 5-10min and another one at 12:30/1pm? It usually is a better solution in my opinion to push through a long day than pushing a nap which can be very long because of tiredness and is steeling sleep from nighttime.

[Crispysage]

Thanks, yes he occasionally car naps but it doesn’t change anything. Something has to change. Can’t function without sleep. Any fresh ideas  thanks again ladies.

[becj86]

He has been up between 3-4

What's his behaviour like in this time?

[Crispysage]

Thanks!

I will note that I have potty trained big brother now and we are doing LO2 aswell... After 1 night I decided NOT to do night training with him as well just yet = it was just too stressful to add that to the mix of already waking boy.

To answer your question, he rarely actually stays awake for stretches as long as an hour if he "gets his way" (I give him medicine and water) Last night i gave him 5ml water and let him cry a bit (not for more than a few minutes, but trying to let him get over it because he is very demanding like this during the day to get his own way... so it seems like the same behavior and it didn't sound like pain cry to me ) but after over an hour I gave him the meds and he went to sleep.

I always think if he was upset for a long time (and especially if it seemed like he had dozed off in between) then it was definitely pain. But everyone says teeth can't go on for months. It should just be a few days? He has just gotten his first canine so the others are coming but honestly he is always this way.

7pm sleep
Somewhere between 10:30/11:30 stir/cry/wake
Usually around 3 stir/cry/wake
5/5:30 WU and we go lie in the room (with LO1) while he "stews" in the crib till no-one can stand it and get up to play. (6am)
11:30am-2pm nap

So last night we were saga between 11:30pm and 1am, then WU at 5am when I just gave up and climbed into the crib and he slept with me till 6:30 HEAVEN. But not sustainable HAHHA.

He fell asleep in the car at 11 today  So I will wake him at 1:30.

So at night it seems he wakes and wants something sweet and some water and throws a tantrum without it.

This might be happening though...

I presume he's not waking for the paci, finding it, replugging himself and then not able to get back to sleep. Or waking for the paci then noticing he's sore or thirsty or you're not there?
It may be paci-weaning time...

I find it moe intimidating than potty training! (and they ONLY use for sleep...) Thanks again for your time !

[becj86]

But everyone says teeth can't go on for months

They can, my DS' canines erupted then went back in 5 times before they finally stayed out. Went to dentist because it had been months of horrendous nights and they said it was normal (as in, not a problem that needs treating). I had a lady yell at me in a restaurant for giving DS pain relief for his teeth and she said her kids had all just woken up with teeth with no discernible upset at all before it. Mine was screaming blue murder in the middle of the day, meanwhile he can be wandering about dripping blood and not be upset by pain. Kids are all different and we really have to go with the ones we've got not what others have. 

Can you give him a sippy cup of water somewhere that he can reach so he can have a drink and go back to sleep himself? Has he had reflux as a baby? Sometimes even when its settled, it can flare with teething.

Another thought is that the nap may be a little bit long or a bit early - you could try capping it at 2:15 or shifting it a bit later and see if that helps the waking in the morning.

Dummy weaning was a nightmare here, t was such a strong source of comfort for DS. We ended up putting DS' dummy inside a build-a-bear dog so he could still have it with him and feel it through the fabric but couldn't get it in his mouth. It never damaged his speech or vocab (he spoke early and well) but he was getting a huge overbite which resolved within 6 months of getting rid of the dummy at 4yo.

[Crispysage]

ah thanks - yes we mustn't judge others - my first boy has such a high pain threshold I managed without much meds. I just worry about basically medicating him 8/10 nights! (As in his liver and stomach lining - Ibuprofen) He is usually ok during the day... I hardly ever feel I need to medicate him then, but maybe I miss read when he insists on being held he is in pain. 

I am trying not to leave him with the sappy cup of water so that we can move toward night toilet training... but he does ask for water at night... I am trying to slowly move the drinking to the day time.

both boys love the paci... I will have to tackle it SOMETIME! kept thinking LO2 would start sttn and THEN I would go there... mmm thanks for the support and thoughts, means So much to have shoulders and ears out there!

[becj86]

I just worry about basically medicating him 8/10 nights! (As in his liver and stomach lining - Ibuprofen)

I would be considering that too with ibuprofen on an empty stomach. Paracetamol can cause issues with the liver if you overdose - but if you follow the directions on childrens' paracetamol, that should be ok. Does teething gel help? Just trying to think of a few things you could alternate so you're not medicating quite so much. DS used to like to chew on a cold carrot from the fridge when he was teething (that's a day time thing that requires supervision of course).

Night-time dryness is a function of hormone production - it will come in time. I'd be pretty surprised if you had success with that at this age. My DS did go through a period of waking when he'd urinated in his nappy at night. Of course drinking at night contributes but if you can find a way that he can get back to sleep independently, that may be helpful in the short-term at least.

Is it possible he's dry in the mouth from mouth breathing? Snotty nose? Does he snore?
Airconditioning, fans and heaters can all dry the mouth and nose and make people thirsty too.

maybe I miss read when he insists on being held he is in pain.

Its possible - I know hindsight's 20/20 but I can certainly see looking back I had a very cuddly little boy during the day when he was teething, even recently when he cut his 6yo molars and when his adult teeth come through, he is more needy, wanting more hugs.

I can totally relate to wanting your 1.5 year old to STTN. Mine didn't at that age and it drove me mad but he does now (and has for years). Hugs xx Its a long time to be without decent sleep!

[Crispysage]

Thank you so much - yes may well be dry mouth as we have a fan on... and I will see about teething pills or other ideas. I went back to night nappies!

[becj86]

We put DS' fan on 'winter' setting and that helped.. If its a pedestal fan, running it but not facing towards him might help - still moves air around but not as drying.

[KatyBee]

We had a nightmare with my son’s sleep and he woke between 4-5am for a very long time... I just wondered if you had ever tried capping the nap and doing a SUPER early bedtime to keep your son’s day closer to 12-12.5hours? This is how we got out of the early waking trap. It took a little while but he suddenly started to extend his nights and then we gradually did bedtime later and later and it all slowly moved. The NWs also slowly reduced when his day didn’t go beyond 12.5 hours. Just a thought in case day length isn’t something you had considered.